Re: [orca-list] the speakupmodified dists from speakupmodified.org



I cannot understand why everyone doesn't use Ubuntu 12.04 which uses orca, and updates easily,
Vinux Starts with Ubuntu as a base, but customizes it for the total blind.
Why do so many want to live life the old pioneer way!
Wil Herzog


On 07/09/2012 04:19 PM, robhill es co nz wrote:
Hello Alex and list,

Actually, no.  The GUI is overwhelmingly the norm in the sighted
world, so VI users think that is the only way of doing things- or
perhaps they learned the GUI whilst they still had sight.  But text,
e.g. in the form of emacs, is far more suited to blind use.  It's linearity fits with
speech and Braille so much better than the 2D nature of the GUI.  I
suggest a VI novice who had been exposed to neither the GUI nor text
interfaces would find the learning curve of each about the same.

Rob



Alex Midence writes:
  > Disagree all you like.  The facts speek for themselves.  Ask around and find
  > out how many people use Emacs or Emacspeak.  It's depressingly few.  Compare
  > that to how many use Gedit and Libre Office.  A simple poll on any list you
  > like should suffice to give you an idea.  I'm an avid Emacsoid myself and I
  > wish it were otherwise.  I've even gone so far as to spend several hours of
  > my time writing an introductory guide to it for novice users of Linux in an
  > effort to increase the user base somewhat.  People just seem to find it
  > easier to master Libre Office and Gedit than they do Emacs.  Part of the
  > reason is that unconventional interface you mentioned.  It introduces
  > complexity and difficulty or the perception thereof.  The harder something
  > is to master, the fewer people will want to master it.  Their need for the
  > software has to be high enough to justify the extra time and effort.  If
  > they find out there's something out there that does the same thing but with
  > less effort on their part, they're gone.  The only thing that will
  > counteract this phenomenon is if they are required to use it by some outside
  > entity like their job or something like  that.
  >
  > Alex M
  > -----Original Message-----
  > From: orca-list-bounces gnome org [mailto:orca-list-bounces gnome org] On
  > Behalf Of Christopher Chaltain
  > Sent: Monday, July 09, 2012 9:56 AM
  > To: 'orca-list'
  > Subject: Re: [orca-list] the speakupmodified dists from speakupmodified.org
  >
  > I don't agree that the Emacs learning curve is so steep it can only be
  > mastered by a few. It doesn't use the the standard conventions found in a
  > lot of Windows and GUI applications, but that's true of a lot of the
  > applications embraced by the blind, especially on Linux. To me, it just
  > comes down to whether it's worth climbing that learning curve, but that's
  > true for all applications.
  >
  > On 09/07/12 08:07, Alex Midence wrote:
  > > How would the GUI stuff interfere?  Ubuntu comes with all the gui
  > > bells and whistles you could want and yet, it has a talking installer.
  > > And, the reason they don't make Xemacs the default is that people
  > > wouldn't be able to use it as easily as they can LIbre Office or Open
  > > Office.  The learning curve for Emacs is too steep for adoption by
  > > more than a small specialized and commited user base.  For the types
  > > that just want to get in there and get things done coming at the
  > > system cold, it's a major turnoff.  That stuff has to be included in
  > > there.  I don't think it's the GUI stuff.  I think it's more that it
  > > just is not a priority for a lot of distributions or that it just
  > > doesn't get that much attention.  Besides, the GUI stuff isn't a
  > > factor in Speakup modified installations with software speech.
  > > There's absolutely no GUI on a Debian Business card iso.  It's a real
  > slimmed down bit of Linux and it is pure text.
  > >
  > > Alex M
  > >
  > >
  > >
  > > -----Original Message-----
  > > From: Jude DaShiell [mailto:jdashiel shellworld net]
  > > Sent: Monday, July 09, 2012 2:51 AM
  > > To: Alex Midence
  > > Cc: Thomas Ward; orca-list
  > > Subject: Re: [orca-list] the speakupmodified dists from
  > > speakupmodified.org
  > >
  > > It's all the G.U.I. stuff that gets put on systems.  The openoffice
  > > suite with all of its dependencies is one piece that can be stripped
  > > from initial distribution and added in later.  Probably xemacs could
  > > replace openoffice at a huge space savings too.  Probably not so many
  > > dependencies and most of the functionality of openoffice will be there
  > > too. On Sun, 8 Jul 2012, Alex Midence wrote:
  > >
  > >> You are absolutely right.  I'd forgotten about the talking Arch
  > >> option.  To me, Debian's example is the most impressive.  The
  > >> business card sized iso which is like 30 or 40 megs or something like
  > >> that has software speech built in to it.  goes to show you that it
  > >> doesn't take up much space on an image and that it's most likely
  > >> something else that prevents more distributions from making this option
  > available.
  > >>
  > >> Alex M
  > >>
  > >>
  > >>
  > >> On 7/8/2012 4:14 PM, Jude DaShiell wrote:
  > >>> Add archlinux to that list please.  There's a talkingarch version
  > >>> that had espeak added to it. On Sun, 8 Jul 2012, Alex Midence wrote:
  > >>>
  > >>>> The only distros I know of that have speakup with software speech
  > >>>> functionality out of the box are Debian and grml.
  > >>>>
  > >>>> Alex M
  > >>>>
  > >>>> On 7/8/2012 4:24 AM, Thomas Ward wrote:
  > >>>>> Hi Mattias,
  > >>>>>
  > >>>>> To the best of my memory yes. The distributions from the Speakup
  > >>>>> Modified website are only configured for hardware synths. I'm not
  > >>>>> aware of any speakup modified distributions that use ESpeakup or
  > >>>>> something like that for software TTS. :D
  > >>>>>
  > >>>>> On 7/7/12, mattias <mj mjw se> wrote:
  > >>>>>> will them only work with hardware tts?
  > >>>>> _______________________________________________
  > >>>>> orca-list mailing list
  > >>>>> orca-list gnome org
  > >>>>> https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
  > >>>>> Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on Orca.
  > >>>>> The manual is at
  > >>>>> http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.
  > >>>>> html The FAQ is at
  > >>>>> http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions
  > >>>>> Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org Find
  > >>>>> out how to help at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp
  > >>>>
  > >>>> _______________________________________________
  > >>>> orca-list mailing list
  > >>>> orca-list gnome org
  > >>>> https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
  > >>>> Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on Orca.
  > >>>> The manual is at
  > >>>> http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.ht
  > >>>> ml The FAQ is at
  > >>>> http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions
  > >>>> Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org Find out
  > >>>> how to help at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp
  > >>>>
  > >>>>
  > >>>>
  > >>> ----------------------------------------------------------------
  > >>> Windows Pants: made entirely of patches on patches each with a
  > >>> picture of a Microsoft Vacuum Cleaner; a computer mouse, or a dollar
  > > sign.
  > >>>
  > >>> Jude <jdashiel-at-shellworld-dot-net>
  > >>> <http://www.shellworld.net/~jdashiel/nj.html>
  > >>>
  > >>
  > >>
  > >>
  > >
  > > ----------------------------------------------------------------
  > > Windows Pants: made entirely of patches on patches each with a picture
  > > of a Microsoft Vacuum Cleaner; a computer mouse, or a dollar sign.
  > >
  > > Jude <jdashiel-at-shellworld-dot-net>
  > > <http://www.shellworld.net/~jdashiel/nj.html>
  > >
  > >
  > > _______________________________________________
  > > orca-list mailing list
  > > orca-list gnome org
  > > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
  > > Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on Orca.
  > > The manual is at
  > > http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html
  > > The FAQ is at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions
  > > Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org Find out
  > > how to help at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp
  > >
  >
  >
  > --
  > Christopher (CJ)
  > chaltain at Gmail
  >
  >
  > _______________________________________________
  > orca-list mailing list
  > orca-list gnome org
  > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
  > Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on Orca.
  > The manual is at
  > http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html
  > The FAQ is at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions
  > Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org
  > Find out how to help at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp
  >
  >
  >

_______________________________________________
orca-list mailing list
orca-list gnome org
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on Orca.
The manual is at http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html
The FAQ is at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions
Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org
Find out how to help at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp






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