Ok. I'll speak my bit.
Not even 2 weeks before, I said
"What the hell?" and found the Wubi
installer. I installed ubuntu, with
very limited knowledge in linux (I've
taken an opperating systems class
in 10th grade of highschool with gnopix,
if that tells you my limits),
so I knew the basics like cd, md, ls, man,
yatta yatta. But
listening to Darragh's walkthroughs back in 8.04, and
8.10, I decided if
I wasn't going to try it I'd never learn. Then, Anthony
released
Vibuntu. Now, I know the orca can work with the panel menus, and
that pleases me. It got to me knowing I couldn't do my admin
settings stuff
like I could in windows, and not knowing the sudo
commands to run in a
terminal to do things, I got kind of
discouraged. With my newbie questions,
I know I'll get the hang of
it, and figure out how to make my vibuntu 1.1
release talk with those
panel menues (I won't upgrade cause I've got stuff
that I don't want to
lose and redo just now), however, if I get the
instruction I seak I
won't have to. Now, if there was a talking bootloader,
I'd be
confident enough to run linux and windows side-by-side. As it is
now, I still ahve to ask sighted people to assist me with the boot
loader
(Tips welcome on how to use it). But that'll just take
memorization. As it
is now, I'm beginning to like the free
open-sourced OS that I never thought
possible to use. As luke
said, I didn't know how to get the ball rolling so
to speak. With
vibuntu, people like me can essentualy get their feet wet,
and move up
to more customized distributions with more luck, and more
knowledge. Or even make the one they ave do what they want.
It's an
awesome tool to have for someone like me. I know from
first hand
experience. A friend and i took the challenge of
learning linux together,
and I keep telling him to just use vibuntu
until we know how to do the
things vibuntu does for us. Then, we
can learn and do what we want, and how
we want to do it. For that,
I can't thank Anthony enough. I feel i'm
getting somewhere, and,
who knwos. I might be the next one saying, "What's
windows?"
I even got my own keystrokes to work. Like control+alt+F for
firefox. Go me! Unfortunately, it's one of the things that
are up in your
face, but it's a stepp up that mountain of learning I've
still got to do.
Tj
----- Original Message -----
From: "luke
Davis" <
speakup lists tacticus com>
To: "Anthony
Sales" <
tony sales rncb ac uk>
Cc: <
ubuntu-accessibility lists ubuntu com>; <
orca-list gnome org>
Sent: Sunday, December
14, 2008 11:44 PM
Subject: Re: [orca-list] Vibuntu the most accessible
Ubuntu Linux live cd
for theVisually Impaired EVA III
>I
have avoided chiming in on this one to date, and I will probably
avoid
> it in future, but I wanted to say this...
>
> I am
a person who reads those stock and investment plan (some would say
>
scheme) newsletters, such as the stuff produced by the Sovereign
Society
> and S&A Research (basically the whole Agora family) for
fun and amusement
> (and the odd useful piece of investment
information).
>
> If you know what I'm talking about, then you
know that I know whereof I
> speak, when I say that I have seen
copyrighting and "creative"
> advertising, ranging from the absolutely
absurd, to the world class.
>
> While claiming Vibuntu as "the
first fully accessible version of
> Linux...", or variations on that
phrase, is certainly hyperbolic and
> rather overdone, it may have
some effect with the target population. and
> isn't that the
point of marketing? Getting a foot in the door?
> I probably
would not have said it, but then I have never been good at
> selling
things.
>
> Systems like Slackware, and I think even Redhat,
have been fully
> accessible (or at least as accessible) for years,
_if_ you knew how to get
> started.
>
> But that's the
problem: if you need a howto in order to get it going, even
> if it's
a relatively short one, you're already behind the ball, in trying
> to
get your foot in the door.
>
> I believe it can be said to be
true that most blind people using Windows,
> had a sightie do the
installation. By the time the blind user got to the
> system, it was
likely already talking, or could be made so with relative
>
ease.
>
> With Linux, having someone else do the install is
rarely an option. So,
> you start out, when promoting it, in
"catch up" mode. Add to that, having
> to go to some web site,
and follow a possibly complex set of instructions
> in a howto
(complex to someone who has only ever used Windows, or never
> used
anything), when they have never actually heard of a HowTo, and
aren't
> convinced that "this Linux thing" is worth all the trouble,
is not at all
> a good beginning.
>
> I have nothing
invested in VIbuntu (except that I like the name:)), and am
> not
myself convinced that it is a necessary project on its own (I.E.
that
> it might not be better for it to either absorb, or be absorbed
into,
> another project).
> I have seen (and been a part of) too
many projects driven by a need and a
> key personality (I.E. not
driven by a team), that started out with a bang,
> but then flamed out
just when they had a chance, because they did not have
> enough of a
foundation in the community they existed to operate within and
>
support, so I am cautious.
>
> However the need is real, and
since this does seem, at least as I
> understand the situation, to be
a reasonable way of going about things for
> a quick launch of a good
idea (which, unlike many other good
> ideas, has a substantive product
behind it), I say why not?
>
> Yeah it has bugs. Yeah
there are things I think could and should be
> changed about the way
it operates. Yeah remastersys is probably not the
> best way to
roll a distribution. Who cares? It works, it is out
there,
> and it is constantly being worked on--I do not believe that
the
> self-proclaimed deluded megalomaniac has claimed that it is
complete and
> perfect yet.
>
> Anthony may eventually
decide to merge Vibuntu with something else. We
> may even
discover that it does not appeal to the intended target audience
> for
what ever reason.
> Ubuntu may even recognize the value in adding at
least a beeping
> bootloader, and a less tricky installation process
for disabled users.
> That would go a long way to eliminating the need
for this project, I
> think, and is probably the way I would rather
see things go.
>
> But so what? Are we not all about
offering alternatives and choices? Too
> many choices can be a
bad thing. Are we even close to having too many
> choices
yet?
>
> I have seen many people confused by which distribution
to get into; but I
> have seen more of them struggling through the
trials of getting their
> chosen distribution up and talking fully in
a productive way, to think
> that there is no value in what Anthony is
doing. "Put this CD in, boot it
> up, and follow the spoken or
brailled or magnified instructions", is not
> usually the response
given to such questions. Maybe soon it can be.
>
> That is
probably simplistic--one must still understand partitioning and
>
multi booting and such, but that is well documented in simple ways.
To
> me, the holy grail of Linux deployment is "it just
works".
>
> Am I likely to use VIBuntu for anything other than a
lark, or to aid with
> development? No. I've been using
Linux for twelve or more years, and
> unixes longer than that.
I'm used to the hardships and hitches, and
> know where to find help,
and what questions to ask. but then, it wasn't
> meant for me,
was it?
>
> Regards,
>
>
Luke
>
>
> On Sun, 14 Dec 2008, Anthony Sales
wrote:
>
>> Hi Tom, its the self-deluded megalomaniac who
thinks he has solved all of
>> the
>> world's problems
with a simple remix of Ubuntu. I think the key here is
>>
to
>> remember that this distro is not really aimed at Linux users
at all - but
>> visually impaired users who maybe haven't even
heard of linux before. I
>> am
>> trying to 'sell it'
(for free remember) to teachers, trainers, colleges
>>
and
>> institutions in the UK who probably have never heard of or
used Linux
>> before.
>> When promoting something it is
usually to emphasise its strengths rather
>> than
>>
weaknesses. No one is going to sell many cars if they use the slogan,
>> 'its
>> OK, its pretty much like other models really'.
In the same spirit that
>> Carlsberg claim to brew 'probably the
best larger in the world', I have
>> claimed to have produced 'the
first fully accessible version of Linux for
>> visually impaired
users who have never used Linux before'. It has
>>
certainly
>> got peoples attention and a bit of a debate going! You
know that I don't
>> take
>> myself that seriously, but I
think you would have to agree that Vibuntu,
>> even
>>
though it still needs lots of work, is probably the only Linux distro
>> that
>> you or I know of that could be booted and
experimented with by someone
>> with
>> no experience of
Linux, who would have no chance of being able to
>>
configure
>> it themselves without support and/or sighted help. I
think a lot of
>> people in
>> the Linux VI community
forget just how difficult it is to get into Linux,
>>
and
>> the fact they they are so technically competant themselves
etc makes them
>> lose sight of the fact that the vast majority of
VI users are not hackers
>> and
>> have no ambitions to
be so. They just want to browse the web, send a few
>> e-mails or
write a letter etc. If Vibuntu helps just a few people kick
>>
their
>> dependancy on microsoft than I will consider it a time
well spent. (What
>> would you rather be doing - translating T3
scripts into Welsh or
>> tinkering
>> with Ubuntu?) Yours
in humble modesty, drbongo.
>>
>>
>>
-----Original Message-----
>> From:
ubuntu-accessibility-bounces lists ubuntu com on
behalf of Thomas
>> Lloyd
>> Sent: Sun 14/12/2008
22:02
>> To:
ubuntu-accessibility lists ubuntu com>>
Subject: Re: Vibuntu the most accessible Ubuntu Linux live cd for
>> theVisually
>> Impaired EVA
III
>>
>> I also agree that the claim of the first
accessible Linux is a tad far
>> fetched and maybe the most
accessible Ubuntu Linux live cd for the
>> Visually Impaired. Is
more accurate? We all fall victim to claims of
>> self grandeur at
times, especially when it our baby.
>>
>> I think that the
proof is in the pudding as Tony has said himself the
>> community
will decide. I have no issues with slightly misleading
>> marketing
if it saves any disabled people money and opens up more
>>
opportunity for them.
>>
>> This is not to undermine what
has been done in the past by other groups
>> and if there are
better products for those people they will find them.
>> But we all
need a starting point and if you are forced to spend a small
>>
fortune to start on a computer many people who can, either can not
or
>> don't.
>>
>> So all in all keep up the good
work make sure you add in a feature that
>> forces the user to
change their password at least and maybe their
>> username after an
install and I will stop worrying about security.
>>
>>
NL
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
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