Ok. I'll speak my bit.
Not even 2 weeks before, I said "What the hell?" and found the Wubi
installer. I installed ubuntu, with very limited knowledge in linux
(I've
taken an opperating systems class in 10th grade of highschool with
gnopix,
if that tells you my limits), so I knew the basics like cd, md, ls,
man,
yatta yatta. But listening to Darragh's walkthroughs back in 8.04, and
8.10, I decided if I wasn't going to try it I'd never learn. Then,
Anthony
released Vibuntu. Now, I know the orca can work with the panel menus,
and
that pleases me. It got to me knowing I couldn't do my admin settings
stuff
like I could in windows, and not knowing the sudo commands to run in a
terminal to do things, I got kind of discouraged. With my newbie
questions,
I know I'll get the hang of it, and figure out how to make my vibuntu
1.1
release talk with those panel menues (I won't upgrade cause I've got
stuff
that I don't want to lose and redo just now), however, if I get the
instruction I seak I won't have to. Now, if there was a talking
bootloader,
I'd be confident enough to run linux and windows side-by-side. As it
is
now, I still ahve to ask sighted people to assist me with the boot
loader
(Tips welcome on how to use it). But that'll just take memorization.
As it
is now, I'm beginning to like the free open-sourced OS that I never
thought
possible to use. As luke said, I didn't know how to get the ball
rolling so
to speak. With vibuntu, people like me can essentualy get their feet
wet,
and move up to more customized distributions with more luck, and more
knowledge. Or even make the one they ave do what they want. It's an
awesome tool to have for someone like me. I know from first hand
experience. A friend and i took the challenge of learning linux
together,
and I keep telling him to just use vibuntu until we know how to do the
things vibuntu does for us. Then, we can learn and do what we want,
and how
we want to do it. For that, I can't thank Anthony enough. I feel i'm
getting somewhere, and, who knwos. I might be the next one saying,
"What's
windows?" I even got my own keystrokes to work. Like control+alt+F
for
firefox. Go me! Unfortunately, it's one of the things that are up in
your
face, but it's a stepp up that mountain of learning I've still got to
do.
Tj
----- Original Message -----
From: "luke Davis" <
speakup lists tacticus com>
To: "Anthony Sales" <
tony sales rncb ac uk>
Cc: <
ubuntu-accessibility lists ubuntu com>;
<
orca-list gnome org>
Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 11:44 PM
Subject: Re: [orca-list] Vibuntu the most accessible Ubuntu Linux live
cd
for theVisually Impaired EVA III
>I have avoided chiming in on this one to date, and I will probably
avoid
> it in future, but I wanted to say this...
>
> I am a person who reads those stock and investment plan (some
would say
> scheme) newsletters, such as the stuff produced by the Sovereign
Society
> and S&A Research (basically the whole Agora family) for fun
and amusement
> (and the odd useful piece of investment information).
>
> If you know what I'm talking about, then you know that I know
whereof I
> speak, when I say that I have seen copyrighting and "creative"
> advertising, ranging from the absolutely absurd, to the world
class.
>
> While claiming Vibuntu as "the first fully accessible version of
> Linux...", or variations on that phrase, is certainly hyperbolic
and
> rather overdone, it may have some effect with the target
population. and
> isn't that the point of marketing? Getting a foot in the door?
> I probably would not have said it, but then I have never been good
at
> selling things.
>
> Systems like Slackware, and I think even Redhat, have been fully
> accessible (or at least as accessible) for years, _if_ you knew
how to get
> started.
>
> But that's the problem: if you need a howto in order to get it
going, even
> if it's a relatively short one, you're already behind the ball, in
trying
> to get your foot in the door.
>
> I believe it can be said to be true that most blind people using
Windows,
> had a sightie do the installation. By the time the blind user got
to the
> system, it was likely already talking, or could be made so with
relative
> ease.
>
> With Linux, having someone else do the install is rarely an
option. So,
> you start out, when promoting it, in "catch up" mode. Add to
that, having
> to go to some web site, and follow a possibly complex set of
instructions
> in a howto (complex to someone who has only ever used Windows, or
never
> used anything), when they have never actually heard of a HowTo,
and aren't
> convinced that "this Linux thing" is worth all the trouble, is not
at all
> a good beginning.
>
> I have nothing invested in VIbuntu (except that I like the
name:)), and am
> not myself convinced that it is a necessary project on its own
(I.E. that
> it might not be better for it to either absorb, or be absorbed
into,
> another project).
> I have seen (and been a part of) too many projects driven by a
need and a
> key personality (I.E. not driven by a team), that started out with
a bang,
> but then flamed out just when they had a chance, because they did
not have
> enough of a foundation in the community they existed to operate
within and
> support, so I am cautious.
>
> However the need is real, and since this does seem, at least as I
> understand the situation, to be a reasonable way of going about
things for
> a quick launch of a good idea (which, unlike many other good
> ideas, has a substantive product behind it), I say why not?
>
> Yeah it has bugs. Yeah there are things I think could and should
be
> changed about the way it operates. Yeah remastersys is probably
not the
> best way to roll a distribution. Who cares? It works, it is out
there,
> and it is constantly being worked on--I do not believe that the
> self-proclaimed deluded megalomaniac has claimed that it is
complete and
> perfect yet.
>
> Anthony may eventually decide to merge Vibuntu with something
else. We
> may even discover that it does not appeal to the intended target
audience
> for what ever reason.
> Ubuntu may even recognize the value in adding at least a beeping
> bootloader, and a less tricky installation process for disabled
users.
> That would go a long way to eliminating the need for this project,
I
> think, and is probably the way I would rather see things go.
>
> But so what? Are we not all about offering alternatives and
choices? Too
> many choices can be a bad thing. Are we even close to having too
many
> choices yet?
>
> I have seen many people confused by which distribution to get
into; but I
> have seen more of them struggling through the trials of getting
their
> chosen distribution up and talking fully in a productive way, to
think
> that there is no value in what Anthony is doing. "Put this CD in,
boot it
> up, and follow the spoken or brailled or magnified instructions",
is not
> usually the response given to such questions. Maybe soon it can
be.
>
> That is probably simplistic--one must still understand
partitioning and
> multi booting and such, but that is well documented in simple
ways. To
> me, the holy grail of Linux deployment is "it just works".
>
> Am I likely to use VIBuntu for anything other than a lark, or to
aid with
> development? No. I've been using Linux for twelve or more years,
and
> unixes longer than that. I'm used to the hardships and hitches,
and
> know where to find help, and what questions to ask. but then, it
wasn't
> meant for me, was it?
>
> Regards,
>
> Luke
>
>
> On Sun, 14 Dec 2008, Anthony Sales wrote:
>
>> Hi Tom, its the self-deluded megalomaniac who thinks he has
solved all of
>> the
>> world's problems with a simple remix of Ubuntu. I think the
key here is
>> to
>> remember that this distro is not really aimed at Linux users
at all - but
>> visually impaired users who maybe haven't even heard of linux
before. I
>> am
>> trying to 'sell it' (for free remember) to teachers, trainers,
colleges
>> and
>> institutions in the UK who probably have never heard of or
used Linux
>> before.
>> When promoting something it is usually to emphasise its
strengths rather
>> than
>> weaknesses. No one is going to sell many cars if they use the
slogan,
>> 'its
>> OK, its pretty much like other models really'. In the same
spirit that
>> Carlsberg claim to brew 'probably the best larger in the
world', I have
>> claimed to have produced 'the first fully accessible version
of Linux for
>> visually impaired users who have never used Linux before'. It
has
>> certainly
>> got peoples attention and a bit of a debate going! You know
that I don't
>> take
>> myself that seriously, but I think you would have to agree
that Vibuntu,
>> even
>> though it still needs lots of work, is probably the only Linux
distro
>> that
>> you or I know of that could be booted and experimented with by
someone
>> with
>> no experience of Linux, who would have no chance of being able
to
>> configure
>> it themselves without support and/or sighted help. I think a
lot of
>> people in
>> the Linux VI community forget just how difficult it is to get
into Linux,
>> and
>> the fact they they are so technically competant themselves etc
makes them
>> lose sight of the fact that the vast majority of VI users are
not hackers
>> and
>> have no ambitions to be so. They just want to browse the web,
send a few
>> e-mails or write a letter etc. If Vibuntu helps just a few
people kick
>> their
>> dependancy on microsoft than I will consider it a time well
spent. (What
>> would you rather be doing - translating T3 scripts into Welsh
or
>> tinkering
>> with Ubuntu?) Yours in humble modesty, drbongo.
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From:
ubuntu-accessibility-bounces lists ubuntu com
on behalf of Thomas
>> Lloyd
>> Sent: Sun 14/12/2008 22:02
>> To:
ubuntu-accessibility lists ubuntu com
>> Subject: Re: Vibuntu the most accessible Ubuntu Linux live cd
for
>> theVisually
>> Impaired EVA III
>>
>> I also agree that the claim of the first accessible Linux is a
tad far
>> fetched and maybe the most accessible Ubuntu Linux live cd for
the
>> Visually Impaired. Is more accurate? We all fall victim to
claims of
>> self grandeur at times, especially when it our baby.
>>
>> I think that the proof is in the pudding as Tony has said
himself the
>> community will decide. I have no issues with slightly
misleading
>> marketing if it saves any disabled people money and opens up
more
>> opportunity for them.
>>
>> This is not to undermine what has been done in the past by
other groups
>> and if there are better products for those people they will
find them.
>> But we all need a starting point and if you are forced to
spend a small
>> fortune to start on a computer many people who can, either can
not or
>> don't.
>>
>> So all in all keep up the good work make sure you add in a
feature that
>> forces the user to change their password at least and maybe
their
>> username after an install and I will stop worrying about
security.
>>
>> NL
>>
>>
>>
>>
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