[orca-list] Thoughts from an AT Instructor (was Re: Vibuntu the most accessible Ubuntu Linux...)

["Terrence van Ettinger (AKA Angus MacLaren)" <terrence terrencevak net>]

Hello Michael and all,
	As much as the instructors of VI users (myself being one), I think there is also a need to educate providers of technology.  I sadly still teach my clients on Windows, as it is what I feel I can convince DVR to provide to their clients.  One limitation I have seen the software itself that would hold me back from recommending it to people is the admin app speaking issue (did I get the correct impression that this has been fixed in the latest VIBuntu?)  Also, has anything been done to provide support for Office 2007 files?  The clients I serve often need to be able to interact with the latest in Windows technology as that is what their peers in work settings etc. are using.  I would love nothing better than to write, for a recommendation, "Desktop/Laptop computer running Vibuntu/similar open-source OS.", with no burdensome costs for extra screen-reading technology.  

Thanks,
Terrence

On Mon, 2008-12-15 at 00:08 +0000, Michael Whapples wrote:
> Hello,
> A few comments:
> * For who you aim it at and for where it starts (ubuntu) it could be 
> very good, obviously this won't be everyone.
> * So long as it is kept clear that it starts from ubuntu those who may 
> be are more advanced with linux may not be so upset as I get the feeling 
> they may very well have made decisions about distros (talking personally 
> I wouldn't use a ubuntu based system as ubuntu doesn't give me what I 
> want, IE. it isn't vibuntu I have the problem with it is ubuntu, but as 
> vibuntu is a modified ubuntu then...).
> * Is it the most accessible Linux, probably not, it depends where the 
> user comes from. May be it is so for a Windows user but I have heard 
> (and can believe now) that a blind person starting from scratch actually 
> might pick up the command line quicker, in which case GRML is an 
> excellent accessible LiveCD (possibly the best). GRML and ubuntu 
> (Vibuntu) are very different and so I wouldn't say even compete with 
> each other (both personally and in the way that they are aimed at 
> different user groups).
>
> I also question who really are the people you need to convince about 
> Linux being a good accessible alternative. For the VI user there is a 
> great incentive, the cost (although NVDA (www.nvda-project.org) could 
> help the windows user in that respect). Probably more importantly is 
> those who teach VI users about computers, if they understand the system 
> then they can teach it, and most importantly they need to know it even 
> exists.
>
> The only system I believe which has tried to do what Vibuntu is meant to 
> do, is oralux. I don't know what it is like now, but it had start up 
> scripts to set up the LiveCD with the environment you would want (with 
> speech feed back throughout). Have you looked at it?
>
> Michael Whapples
>
> On 23/12/42 20:59, Anthony Sales wrote:
> > Hi Tom, its the self-deluded megalomaniac who thinks he has solved all of the
> > world's problems with a simple remix of Ubuntu. I think the key here is to
> > remember that this distro is not really aimed at Linux users at all - but
> > visually impaired users who maybe haven't even heard of linux before. I am
> > trying to 'sell it' (for free remember) to teachers, trainers, colleges and
> > institutions in the UK who probably have never heard of or used Linux before.
> > When promoting something it is usually to emphasise its strengths rather than
> > weaknesses. No one is going to sell many cars if they use the slogan, 'its
> > OK, its pretty much like other models really'. In the same spirit that
> > Carlsberg claim to brew 'probably the best larger in the world', I have
> > claimed to have produced 'the first fully accessible version of Linux for
> > visually impaired users who have never used Linux before'. It has certainly
> > got peoples attention and a bit of a debate going! You know that I don't take
> > myself that seriously, but I think you would have to agree that Vibuntu, even
> > though it still needs lots of work, is probably the only Linux distro that
> > you or I know of that could be booted and experimented with by someone with
> > no experience of Linux, who would have no chance of being able to configure
> > it themselves without support and/or sighted help. I think a lot of people in
> > the Linux VI community forget just how difficult it is to get into Linux, and
> > the fact they they are so technically competant themselves etc makes them
> > lose sight of the fact that the vast majority of VI users are not hackers and
> > have no ambitions to be so. They just want to browse the web, send a few
> > e-mails or write a letter etc. If Vibuntu helps just a few people kick their
> > dependancy on microsoft than I will consider it a time well spent. (What
> > would you rather be doing - translating T3 scripts into Welsh or tinkering
> > with Ubuntu?) Yours in humble modesty, drbongo.
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ubuntu-accessibility-bounces lists ubuntu com on behalf of Thomas Lloyd
> > Sent: Sun 14/12/2008 22:02
> > To: ubuntu-accessibility lists ubuntu com
> > Subject: Re: Vibuntu the most accessible Ubuntu Linux live cd for theVisually
> > Impaired EVA III
> >
> > I also agree that the claim of the first accessible Linux is a tad far
> > fetched and maybe the most accessible Ubuntu Linux live cd for the
> > Visually Impaired. Is more accurate? We all fall victim to claims of
> > self grandeur at times, especially when it our baby.
> >
> > I think that the proof is in the pudding as Tony has said himself the
> > community will decide. I have no issues with slightly misleading
> > marketing if it saves any disabled people money and opens up more
> > opportunity for them.
> >
> > This is not to undermine what has been done in the past by other groups
> > and if there are better products for those people they will find them.
> > But we all need a starting point and if you are forced to spend a small
> > fortune to start on a computer many people who can, either can not or
> > don't.
> >
> > So all in all keep up the good work make sure you add in a feature that
> > forces the user to change their password at least and maybe their
> > username after an install and I will stop worrying about security.
> >
> > NL
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >    
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