Re: trash/delete prompt

[Milosz Derezynski <internalerror gmail com>]

 I forgot, people can disable that bubble, or maybe even dialog (?) (but probably better not a dialog) somehow with a "Don't show this again." or "Yes, I understand this concept now." which then sets that bool key in gconf to not show it again (but probably can be re-enabled using Nautilus' preferences win). Sorry for elaborating so much on that bool setting but it's just the one thing I forgot in my previous post, not a big thing in itself of course.

On Tue, Mar 17, 2009 at 7:46 PM, Milosz Derezynski <internalerror gmail com> wrote:

On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 12:07 AM, Andre Klapper <ak-47 gmx net> wrote:

Hi Sean,

Am Sonntag, den 15.03.2009, 16:08 -0400 schrieb sjohnsonaz aol com:

> While I understand that a prompt on something like "play" is
> unnecessary, "play" doesn't change anything related to data.  For any
> "read" feature, there is absolutely no reason for a prompt.  But in
> the case of a writing feature, especially one where a user may lose
> their data, a prompt is ABSOLUTELY necessary.

I agree, but moving something to Trash is not about losing data.
Expunging the trash is about losing data, that's why you get a
confirmation dialog by default for that case.

Yes but people don't know that, they start with a concept of what Trashcan is in real life (they might assume it works like on Windows, or might not, in which case they will resort to what I just stated).

And putting something into the Trash (people can think abstractly enough to realize that it doesn't neccessarily delete the File, but it *might*) in real life is for the better part irreversible: you can pull some thing out of the trash after throwing it in there, but usually you rather don't [want to] do that, for obvious reasons [dirt, slime, mold, whatever], hence when you throw something away in the kitchen, you do it with the preconception that it's permanent.

And that preconception is what people "take" to the Trash in Nautilus (or any Trash on any OS, just that on others, they might already know what happens or how it works). They assume it's permanent. I bet 1 day of my daily salary that if you perform a usability test with unwitting users, they will tell you "well it probably erases the file, no?"

So I'm also quite sure that it's a shock moment for these people if it just deletes the file and says nothing, because, like I use to think about people using computers, they're half intelligent, and half dumb, but both at the same time. What I mean with that is, everything pulled together:

- The concept of a Trash in real life is permanent destruction, or at least a place where you put something DESIGNATED for permanent destruction, but mentally, if you think yourself about your own trashcan (and please no theorizing now, I mean the way you normally "just" use it, and not what is possible to be theorized about it) you just throw it away and that moment it's "gone" for you.

- They don't know how Trash works on Nautilus in particular, so they assume what they know from this concept in real life (in this light, calling it "Recycle Bin" on Windows, or at least having that logo on it [they should just call it that if it's not called that yet, or something similar that doesn't designate terminal destruction, or at least does not verge on it and makes it more clear that it is not neccessarily permanent]), and thus assume "permanently gone"

(Just BTW, if you think I'm theorizing now myself, I am in fact not, I am just gathering the way people intuitively think about these things, e.g. the way they think about the trash the moment they throw something away. So please, again, don't try to find just a reason to counter me, but try to understand.)

- So, they assume Trash == permanent deletion, and they know that "usually", "the computer" asks before "doing something problematic". This time, even though they perceive the "trashing" of a file/files as something invasive and "problematic", the computer doesn't ask.

This is just an analysis. Summa summarum one could just say, people probably generally assume a Trash is permanent (which everyone of us will easily see and agree too if we put down the nerd "let's make it all theoretical or discuss all possibilities" glasses ), and not asking for confirmation on a permanent, destructive action is probably a bad idea.

I agree though that it could get annoying.

Hence I have a different proposal, but it is probably so "way out of line" for GNOME HIG or GNOME-whatever (sorry if this sounds derogative, but I am in fact a little annoyed by the complete ridgitiy of the HIG and the UI concepts in general not changing or having been enhanced over time). Still it goes like this:

Boolean GConf key in nautilus prefs or wherever this is appropriate "trash-introduction".

When a user moves something into the Trash for the first time, a notification bubble above the trashcan on the desktop, at a trash icon in the systray, inside nautilus, or "just" a notification bubble, or wherever, says "$N Files have been moved to the Trash. Click on 'Trash' to open and restore the files." where 'Trash' should be clickable so you can just open it again, and the bubble shouldn't disappear within just 2 or 3 seconds but probably more like after 8 or so.

The point in making Trash clickable is that people who just worried where the files went can just open the Trashcan and make sure they are all still there. Then there is the paradox that why people should wonder where their files are when they meant to delete them (since going by my explanation, they assume it's permanent).

Some will, some will not. For those that do wonder, this will be a mechanism of learning about how the Trash works, and for those who don't, it will be simply a confirmation of how many files they've deleted (a minute headache I've come across not seldomly in my time of using computers, marking up some files I picked out for deletion, and then hitting the Trash or something menu item, wondering whether I just deleted 5 or 6 of them).

Ok so much for this long post! Hope someone bothered to even read it all!

Cheers!
Milosz

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-- 
Please note that according to the German law on data retention,
information on every electronic information exchange with me is
retained for a period of six months.
[Bitte beachten Sie, dass dem Gesetz zur Vorratsdatenspeicherung zufolge
jeder elektronische Kontakt mit mir sechs Monate lang gespeichert wird.]