Why dont you guys ask the users what we want?

Before you start on the OO interface redesign, why dont you discuss them in public on slashdot with the users?

Why not have some interviews? Why not let the users contribute our ideas or input, I think before you make the switch to this new style, users and developers should discuss all the benifits, possible features, etc.

I dont mean just discuss it on a little tiny mailing list but how about make it more public, this seems like a HUGE HUGE change and it might not be for the better or it might.

In my post to KDEs mailing list i gave my ideas of how i'd like the interface to be to make it easier

Ill repost it here --------------------------------------------

I'm sending this to the main mailing list because I dont see a useability mailing list. I'm posting this in a last ditch effort to try to reverse the current trend linux is going. They are going to end up just like windows (which is not easy to use just very well known) when they could surpass windows easily as companies do already.Now I'm not sure if this should be a special mode for KDE, or what, but ICQ does something similar and I think it was a wonderful idea. I know about PDA KDE or QT on the sharp, its a very nice start and honestly, the PDA is easier to use than the actual KDE for newbies. People are quick to say Linux is dead on the Desktop, however the Desktop market itself is being phased out by Tivo, Playstation2, Xbox, PDAs, and other easier to use more specialized products. Why cant we release a specialized version of KDE specifically made for people who dont plan to do anything serious with it, who just want to play their games, check their email, listen to their music, and use the internet to surf and chat. Currently KDE is becoming a Windows clone, Lycoris I think is going in the wrong direction, while they might sell well to corperations, average users dont want something thats "as easy to use as Windows" They want something EASIER to use than Windows. They want something to make playing their games and chatting with their friends easier. What I believe users want, is a KDE communications suite. Kopete, Noatun, Konq, maybe a CD burner, and an interface specifically designed for making the use of these applications a simple as possible.

I have an idea which might actually greatly improve useability somewhat, but i'm not sure if KDE could do something like this.

In an OSnews Article on cleaning up the Gnome GUI, It showed two diffrent pictures of the Gnome GUI.


Single Task Interface. (Tivo, Dreamcast, PS2,PDAs)

Multi Task Interface. (Windows, OSX, Linux)

What needs to be done is, we need to keep multitasking but keep it away from the user so they dont see everything thats running and going on unless they choose to look.

Now theres two seperate windows in both of these pictures, my idea is this, could it be possible to create 1 window instead of 2 like in these pictures, so if you click an option in a menu instead of it opening up another window, how about just load the results in the menu itself?

Such as when you search in say Windows via Find in windows, the results of your actions shows in the same window.

My question is can you make menus dynamic, so when you click a button, the menu changes itself around so it displays the new results with a new set of options, instead of opening up a new menu and leaving the user with two menus all the time?

Less menus = less complexity.

Can the KDE usability team focus on making KDE more specialized with and use the least amount of menus for each task possible?

Here is how I'd make the interface simple. I know geeks will not agree with this because they want power, so this could be an option, kinda like ICQ has the option to go simple or advanced.

Simple interface should be an interface DESIGNED just to display 1-2 menus at a time, with the rest of the menus iconized and out of the way.

Meaning, if someone is listening to an mp3, the Mp3 player should be a full screen menu, remove the ability to resize and just allow the user to close this menu, or make one of the other iconized programs full screen menu.

What I'm thinking of, is how the Cable TV menus work, how the Video Game console menus work. These menus are so easy to use because they never have too much on screen at once.

When you load a game, you just see the game. When you play a movie or DVD you just see the DVD. When you play a Music CD or Mp3, you just see the music CD or Mp3 interface.

Ok I want you all, to visualize this, so I'm going to give you some pictures. I am going to show you pictures of the Windows Interface, The KDE Interface, The OSX Interface, and Interfaces from PDAs,Video Game Systems, Stereos even WebTV.

With this information, perhaps you guys can help me set up a survey.

Planetweb the maker of the PS2, Sega Saturn and Dreamcast interface currently have as simple of an interface as I've easy seen. Before I had a computer, I started surfing with the Sega Saturn TV hookup using planet web. Now, for a geek, something like planet web which just surfs the web and plays games, its just not powerful enough but 90 percent of PC users only surf the web, play games, use word, listen to music and chat.

These things dont require the power that linux has to offer, so to show them all these menus and programs they will never use, its overwelming them.

Lets look at planet web

They offer the communication suite. This suite does what 90 percent of the PC users want to do.

You can see how planetweb works by going to http://net4tv.com/voice/Story.cfm?storyID=2023

Notice they limit the amount of open windows and menus to keep things clean and simple.

WebTV, which is a similar product but focused mostly on TV, also has a similar interface.

Which you can see there.

Tivo, which is also a similar product, once again has only a few menus on the screen and focus's on having only menus open which are in use at that time.

Now. IF these devices can be easy to use, and you never hear anyone complain about Tivo, Playstation 2, Dreamcast, Sega Saturn,or alot of these PDAs of being hard to use. Why not follow their route? Or at least use some of their Ideas because they actually work. Windows is not easy to use, people just know how to use Windows because its been around for so long. OSX is easier to use than Windows, but compare OSX to the Dreamcast or the Tivo and even OSX is more complicated.

What do the people on this mailing list think of this? I'd like to see as many opinions as possible. My opinion is that people want simple, and specialized, thats why game consoles continue sell so well. Why cant Linux be the OS that runs on all of these little devices as well as the Desktop all using the same interface on all of them? This means one simple version of KDE like planet web, which runs on the PC, the Mac, Video Game systems, and new toys which arent out yet.

What do you think?

Users like one window open at a time in my opinion, the more windows you have open, the more "difficult" it is for them, if you can do this in such a way where only one window is maximized, while all the other windows are icons, it could be useful, but if its object oriented couldnt an mp3 object be your mp3 manager, a person clicks mp3 icon and this lets them manage their mp3 files, this manager should embed into whatever they are doing, go into icon mode again etc.

Movies should be the same, and yes I think object oriented is a good idea if its donee in the proper war, if its done wrong however I think you;ll end up with a more complicated interface. I dont believe a bunch of developers who know nothing about ease of use should be the ones who try to make things easy, linux is as difficult as it is now because a small group of developers did what was easy for them.

How about you let users vote somehow on ease of use issues? Do what Winamp is doing, the position of windows, the interface, etc should be recorded and automatically sent back to the developers so developers can see what users actually use and how they use it.

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