On Mon, 2002-01-28 at 21:31, James Mitchell Allmond wrote: > I don't think either of my two nautilus UIs are confusing. I would hope not.... ;-) I was just stating a general principle - the more stuff you have to look at, the harder it is to grasp. In fact, they > are just the opposite. It's clear how to access any drive. Once that > goal is accomplished, the rest is childs play. Remember a computer > illiterate person knows nothing of file systems. I am more than willing to concede that the UNIX filesystem standard is confusing to the uninitiated. I am a full supporter of making things easier to get at. So a "places" sidebar would be pretty useful. I'd probably use it in place of the tree sidebar for the most part, as there are only 3 or 4 places I typically need files from. Hopefully one day we can just use those cool virtual folders for everything, and forget about the filesystem altogether, but that is an entirely different (and more complicated) discussion. All they know is that > they want to access their floppy or cdrom drive and put its files (like > documents, etc..) on their desktop or home directory. Or vice versa. As I've said, I'm not objecting to having a quick reference to things like that. Of course, the floppy and cdrom and such are auto-mounted on insert, and so icons for them appear on the desktop....so they are pretty easy to find - even for new users. But I am against random clutter. That is why it seems like a sidebar tab might be a nice way to please everyone here. A > new user would be lost if he didn't see directly how to access such > things. No offense, but who cares if you personally find it useless. You > are a advanced user compared to most computer users so you can't think > in terms of what you personally like. As far as what I personally like, > I don't really care if I even have a file browser. However, there are > other people out there that aren't like that and shouldn't be unable to > use a linux desktop because the developers only had advanced users in > mind. I have put linux on a few of my friends' computers in place of windows, and they are art and english majors.....but they can move things to and from floppies and cdroms without much trouble, thanks to the icons that pop up on the desktop. Things are pretty newbie-friendly in nautilus. Not perfect, but in no way horrible. The reason I take interest in Nautilus is because UI design is > kind of fun. I'm also a physicist who has to use linux on a daily basis > and it would be nice if others that join the research team could use the > computers naturally without me having to waste a weeks worth of my time > explaining how to do simple file management tasks. From where things > stand now, I think either the vertical or horizontal placement is fine. > Perhaps their placement could be dynamic depending on the dimensions of > the window. Moving things dynamically would probably be more annoying/confusing than anything else. no muscle memory gets developed... In either case, the details of how the "Places" icons are > arranged is trivial. So then why not put it all in a sidebar tab? The real point is that such things should be easily > discoverable and easy to access. I just think it looks better to have it > done in a way similar to the way I've presented it. Plus is sets up a > bit of consistency between nautilus and evolution which will be gnome2's > most gnomish and widespread applications. > Not really, because Nautilus all of the sudden has both a shortcut bar AND a sidebar. Which seems like it is internally inconsistent. The sidebars are actually pretty useful, and hopefully will get more useful as more of them are written. > > > > > Well, the *point* of toolbars in general is to give users quick access > > to frequently-used functions. So it seems that it does have to do with > > what you use the most. > > > > > > It's about partitioning a topic into it's core > > > subtopics. A user doesn't spend much time clicking between "My summary" > > > and "inbox" in evolution either but yet they are there taking up most of > > > the real estate. > > > > I do quite a bit, actually...that's why it's called the "shortcuts" > > bar....it lets you quickly switch between common functions. It also > > provides a quick visual of which folder I have new mail in. > > > > Why? Cause it breaks Evolution into the key components > > > of what it's for. What's a file browser for? It's for moving between > > > different data storage devices and manipulating or viewing their > > > contents. > > > > I *barely* have to move stuff to a floppy or from a cdrom. > > I'm all for a nautilus sidebar that has a "places" list, where you can > > add new ones, but it comes with nice defaults. (practically what the > > Nautilus Bookmarks are, I guess....it could use the same machinery) So > > your home dir, your removable devices, and whatever else you use > > frequently could be listed quickly. > > > > But remember, the more buttons and such you have, the harder it is > > initially to figure out how to use it - simply by virtue of more > > information to process. And you also force people to have a wider > > screen. If you do the vertical arrangement, and the user has the > > sidebar active too, then nautilus is split into 3 panels...which is > > getting pretty rediculous. > > > > At the heart of the whole purpose is the individual > > > components. When a author writes a book, does he let the reader use the > > > index as the primary source for organizing the material and as the means > > > of navigation? No, he breaks it into it's fundamental sections and > > > labels those in the outline. The index is just a extra tool for > > > specifics. These "Places" Icons are the exact same thing. > > > > > > > But are the sections on the top of every page? > > Do you have a fundamental problem with just making a sidebar for > > "places"? That seems like the simplest solution. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > nautilus-list mailing list > > > nautilus-list lists eazel com > > > http://lists.eazel.com/mailman/listinfo/nautilus-list > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nautilus-list mailing list > nautilus-list lists eazel com > http://lists.eazel.com/mailman/listinfo/nautilus-list
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