Re: community managers

I think this comes down to a philosophical difference in ideas about
what GNOME is, as it has before. Is GNOME really just GNOME Shell as
we release it? When other people use our technology, in XFCE,
Cinnamon, Unity, Mate, etc, are they still using GNOME? Do we want to
completely segregate ourselves from them? Is that healthy for our
community? For theirs? Or would we all be better off, recognizing that
we all use many of the same technologies, and that we all have
something to share. Wouldn't we all be better off, if the folks who
work on Cinnamon and XFCE and Mate and GNOME Shell could all sit
around and talk about their problems together, and find solutions that
work for everyone?

I'm not saying we should all combine and just produce one desktop -
that's never going to happen. But recognizing each others' work as
useful, as interesting, as important would go a long ways to repairing
some of the relationships that have suffered. I don't really want to
run Cinnamon, but I don't doubt that there are parts of it that I
would enjoy and find useful. Why can't we find a way to share? A way
to include everyone who uses GNOME technology so that we can all share
what we do and learn from each other and make better software. Isn't
that what GNOME has always been about?


On Fri, Nov 16, 2012 at 10:50 AM, Dave Neary <dneary gnome org> wrote:
> Hi Jon,
> On 11/15/2012 09:12 PM, William Jon McCann wrote:
>> On Wed, Nov 14, 2012 at 6:38 AM, Dave Neary wrote:
>>     I think that as a project, we have had trouble communicating our
>>     vision, because as a project we are not sure what it is.
> I think this is the main thing I wanted to say. I have been involved in the
> GNOME project, albeit not as a core developer or module maintainer, since
> 2004. And I do not understand our vision. What is the dream that we're
> selling, and why should I be excited about it?
>>     For instance, the insistence that
>>     theming will damage our brand, or that Cinnamon is not GNOME 3, has
>>     led to missed opportunities for the GNOME project, and has not got
>>     grass roots support among the GNOME community (and I'm not talking
>>     about users here, I'm talking about contributors - developers,
>>     translators, user group co-ordinators, and marketers).
>> Let's be clear then. Cinnamon is not GNOME 3.
> I understand that is your position. And I understand that as the maintainer
> and primary designer of GNOME Shell, you have a lot of weight in holding
> that position.
> I think it's a shame that Cinnamon users don't realise, for the most part,
> that they are using GNOME Shell, and the rest of the GNOME 3 stack. I think
> that it's a shame that we have apparently gone out of our way to put a
> barrier between ourselves and the Cinnamon/Mint guys by saying "you're not
> GNOME 3". The message we're sending is, "your help is not wanted, we don't
> like what you're doing".
> Personally, I think that it'd be cool to have our community be the community
> of people who can go wild on the platform - "let a thousand flowers bloom".
> That the core GNOME project is solid and useful, but that we encourage
> experimentation, respins, freedom for our users. That seems inconsistent
> with the current GNOME messaging.
>> The discussion of brand
>> was in relation to the stability of extensions and the impact on the
>> user experience - and was taken out of context. Neither of these have
>> led to missed opportunities. Continuing to misrepresent or misunderstand
>> what we are trying to do and trying to say doesn't help us communicate
>> our vision, does it?
> I certainly misunderstand what you are trying to do. I don't think I know
> what the GNOME 3 vision is. Would you mind helping me understand better?
> Thanks,
> Dave.
> --
> Dave Neary, Lyon, France
> Email: dneary gnome org
> Jabber: nearyd gmail com
> --
> marketing-list mailing list
> marketing-list gnome org

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