Re: CMS selected: Plone



Henrius, I appreciate all the time and energies you have put on this
and, believe me, it hasn't been easy to decide. I can't disagree with
most of your comments since, as I tried to explain before, I think
Midgard the tool and Midgard the developers are capable of matching the
requirements. But there were other factors in this tight final.

Just one comment:

On Mon, 2006-10-30 at 13:45 +0200, Henri Bergius wrote:

> I think only i18n req we don't support is PO import/export of content.
> And to be frank, I'm sceptical that content translators would like to
> work using that anyway.

I was skeptical too, and it was just last Friday when I asked yet again,
this time in #i18n at irc.gnome.org. The edited log is below but the
main conclusion is that yes, they want to work with their tools using
xml2po and a versioning system. They are serious about it.

The log:

(...)
(03:21:35 PM) qgil: also, I guess the tool we need to look at is
http://cvs.gnome.org/viewcvs/damned-lies/ , isn't it danilo ?
(03:22:05 PM) danilo: not really, damned-lies currently just uses xml2po
(03:22:15 PM) danilo: so, if xml2po can extract the content, then it's
not a problem
(03:22:35 PM) danilo: qgil: any translator who has ever used xml2po so
far should be able to help
(03:22:58 PM) danilo: qgil: if you want to test it yourself, take a
snippet of valid XML, and run "xml2po -a yourfile.xml"
(03:23:24 PM) danilo: if it gets into msgid "blahblah" all the stuff
that needs translation, then that XML format will do just fine
(03:23:40 PM) qgil: no, I don't want to test anything relating to
translations, I want the i18n saying "yes, this is what we need" or "no,
this sucks" - I have enough with the wgo revamp :)
(03:24:03 PM) danilo: qgil: well, ok, then just point me at XML format
you're considering, and I can say "yes" or "no" :)
(03:24:13 PM) qgil: good :)
(03:25:28 PM) danilo: and just to be clear: ideally, you would use our
existing documentation infrastructure instead (such as gnome-doc-utils),
but we are already meeting you half-way, since we are aware that it's
going to be hard to meet our requirements even partially :)

(...)

(03:39:02 PM) danilo: qgil: basically, we want translators to be able to
fetch updated PO files from something like
http://progress.gnome.org/module/epiphany (look at the "user manual")
(03:39:21 PM) danilo: qgil: and they should be able to simply upload
those PO files and have them merged
(03:39:52 PM) danilo: with "upload" best being "cvs commit" (or svn once
we switch to it), but any other method will do
(03:40:27 PM) qgil: danilo: I still don't understand how web content can
be treated in the same way as software strings, though
(03:41:27 PM) josep: qgil: look at how documentation is translated, it
should be pretty similar, I think
(03:41:28 PM) danilo: qgil: well, it's quite simple: any content can be
divided into paragraphs (or sentences), and a single paragraph is easier
to maintain translation for
(03:42:26 PM) danilo: qgil: as a matter of fact, other approaches bring
results we had with documentation for the past 4 years: no documentation
has been translated to any language except for Sun contributed
translations, and they were too hard to update because we only had
docbook source on them
(03:42:48 PM) danilo: so, basically, we had to dump almost all of sun
contributed translations
(03:43:48 PM) danilo: qgil: it will all seem clear to you when you just
realize that you want to translate small snippets instead of entire
documents; i.e. you don't want to translate markup which stays the same,
etc.
(03:44:05 PM) danilo: qgil: and that's what xml2po tries very hard to
help translators with
(03:44:38 PM) qgil: I perfectly understand the need to have a process
friendly to your process to get wgo translated and updated
(03:45:33 PM) danilo: qgil: well, I don't see why you have a problem
with using same system for software strings, documentation and web
translation
(03:45:56 PM) qgil: my problem is to see what workflow we need to define
to go from a web editor creating or modifying a wgo English page to the
translators aknowledging the change, translating the new content and
getting it published in the localized versions of wgo 
(03:47:06 PM) danilo: qgil: well, with docs/UI, we watch for CVS commits
and then update progress.gnome.org (or run l10n-status.gnome.org
software periodically)
(03:47:26 PM) danilo: and translators are able to see what is below 100%
on these status pages
(03:48:03 PM) qgil: danilo: it's great you see clearly a solution, this
proofs my theory that a i18n person needs to take part in the wgo
planning proces as soon as we have the CMS in place :)

-- 
Quim Gil /// http://desdeamericaconamor.org

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