Re: Problems with cedil



Kaixo!

On Fri, Oct 03, 2003 at 12:07:25PM -0400, Owen Taylor wrote:

> These represent the languages that the user knows. Within this set,
> it's likely that if you start using one of these languages in a 
> window (or for tabbed-mdi, mdi tab) then you want to continue using
> that language.

I don't think that is evident, the most used input method: switch of
keyboard layouts, is global in all the OS I know; a per-windows or per-tab
keyboard state is not something people would expect. And also, why not
a per-windows state for capslock and similar things?

I know that the use of transliteration methods or CJK input servers is a
bit different; but still, the most common case will be to switch globally.
Havin per-window states means that the burden to keep track of the state
is on the user; it is sometimes a pain to keep track of where the focus
is when there are several windows opened, keeping track of the input
method would be even worst.

The local state of input method is clearly an exception

> Imagine chatting in two different xchat tabs. Or editing code in
> one window and writing an email in another. 

Yes, but irc/im/mail/news is a small portion of the totality of available
programs; imho those programs only should provide the ability to have
local (per-tab) input states; or even better than per-window/per-tabe: 
per-correspondant (that is, configurable in the preferences of the program,
like xchat currently has the ability to configure on a per-channel basis
the charset encodign to use, it could have an extra field to configure
on a per-channel basis the input method (the default being to use the
global one).
Same for instant messaging (eg, gaim, on a per-buddy basis),
news (on a per-newsgroup or per-hierarchy basis), and email.

But the usefulness in other programs is less evident.

I mean, if you know several languages using different scripts, it is perfectly
possible that you get messages or emails in another script when you
are working on something other, and you may want to reply withotu having
to manually switch the input methods;
But are there people that will do things like editing at the same time two
(or more) text files into two (or more) different scripts?
I mean: at the same time.

For the cases that are valid exeptions imho, what caracterize them is that
they are somewhat interactive (you don't know in advance what you will
read and reply to); this is particularly true for the instant messaging;
but for tasks that the user is in full control, it would be a bit strange
to to type and switch between scripts and tasks so frequently in a short
period of time that manually switching the input methods would be a penalty. 

> The only place where you need a global preference is for creation
> of new windows.
.. 
>  - Use whatever input method you switched to last
> 
> In the interest of simplicity and avoiding settings, I think the second
> is probably better, but either works.

I like that idea too (and I find it quite intuitive and user friendly too)
 
> One important thing here is having a global indication of what the
> current IM / keyboard group is. If the user knows that that will always
> be indicated on their panel (or wherever) then it's much easier to
> switch as necessary then if they have to guess what is current.

given the number of possible input methods, I don't see how it could be
easily indicated (or make the the icons for each method user-themable ?)



And now, for something completly different (well, still a bit related).

I would really love an "XIM" input method that would be configurable
and accept multiple instances.

The things that could be configured would be, for example:
- locale to use
- xkb or real XIM
- in case of real XIM:
  - value for XMODIFIER
  - pathname of xim program

then, it would be possible to switch between Japanese and Chinese input
for example, using XIM input programs.


That is what yudit (http://www.yudit.org/) actually does, and it works
very well 


Thanks

-- 
Ki a vos vye bn,
Pablo Saratxaga

http://chanae.walon.org/pablo/		PGP Key available, key ID: 0xD9B85466
[you can write me in Walloon, Spanish, French, English, Italian or Portuguese]

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