Re: Template stuff.

[Joakim Ziegler <joakim ximian com>]

On Sat, 2002-03-02 at 06:46, Steve Hall wrote:

> I pretty much followed your discussion with Jeff and agree with the
> two template approach, the table one also being the low
> bandwidth/Netscape 4/non-CSS/Lynx type, with the other CSS2 for
> Moz/IE/Opera/Konq/etc. I started a table layout, but haven't had time
> to finish yet. You could probably start over and be just as far along
> in a few hours. 

> My only concern with this approach is that it will likely mean two
> sets of graphics with the current design, which could add considerably
> to the maintenance effort. As it seems there are plenty more coders
> than artists, I was hoping we could work around this limitation with a
> more sophisticated approach to code. But that's just my perspective.

I'm not too worried about the maintenance, as long as we limit what
exactly we use graphics for. Maintenance is a problem with the current
www.gnome.org because there's lots of pictures of text for the menus,
etc. As long as we avoid that, I think we should be ok, though. In the
worst case, we can just make up a few extra background/logo combinations
and store them for whenever we need them, so if something needs to be
deployed fast, it only requires a coding effort.


> From: "Joakim Ziegler" <joakim ximian com>
>> I quickly hacked together something that is in the same basic vein,
>> but looks a bit cleaner:

>> http://www.avmaria.com/gnome-template/
  
> After seeing this, I'm sure you and I have different design tastes. ;)
> While you call this cleaner, I'd say it looks flat. This grided,
> two-dimensional look is hugely popular right now, but I'd say maybe a
> bit dated. My intentions have always been to push the look towards a
> three-dimensional feel, given that GNOME is about environment. It
> might be a jump to call a desktop three dimensional, but why then do
> we insist on beveled windows, textured controls and shadowed icons?
> Answer: it's easier to see and manipulate. (When done right,
> obviously.)

Well, I'm typically skeptical of confusing GUI design in applications
with web page design. An application has primarily an interface for
performing actions, while a web page is primarily for viewing and
browsing information. But I think I've mentioned this before.


> Given this difference, that explains why I like the realistic looking
> top bar images, best expressed here:
>   http://www.mindspring.com/~digitect/gnome/v2/ia-2-0-3-search02.html
> It also explains my approach in this template to using deeper
> coloring, shadowing the GNOME banner below the foot, the stark toe of
> the foot sticking into the top bar, a beveled color stripe, etc., all
> things that you mentioned in your comments as being less than
> optimal.

I agree it's a matter of taste. I'm just fond of the clean look you can
accomplish using CSS boxes and single-pixel borders. I've also tried to
tone the colors down a bit, since I thought the original draft was a bit
too colorful. Content is king, etc., and I don't want to take the
attention away from it.


> Now having explained my point of view, let me just say that since it's
> only a matter of taste, I have no problem going with your approach. I
> think that since we're finally getting moving on implementation, the
> design side of this project is now going to require some more effort
> and time which fortunately you seem to have.

> Sadly, this is what I have very little of at the moment. I'm studying
> for professional exams for the next many months and it is unlikely
> that I will be able to keep up with the pace. (This mostly explains my
> recent temper tantrum about having to re-work templates and graphics
> before we even had any back-end stuff to speed.)

> This is the perfect time for you to get re-involved with the effort!
> I'm staying on the list and if I can help out I'll be glad to take
> direction or fill in whatever way I can. Who knows, I may still find
> the occasional evening or two to contribute. But I'm glad for the
> webhackers that there's somebody else that can be working on templates
> and graphics while the back end is being put together.

Well, I was actually looking forward to working with you on the design
work, so it's sad to see that you won't have much time. But I will be
happy to take on this work.

-- 
 Joakim Ziegler - Ximian Engineer - joakim ximian com - Radagast IRC
FIX sysop - Free Software Coder - Writer - FIDEL & Conglomerate hacker
          http://www.avmaria.com/ - http://www.ximian.com/