Re: Template stuff.

["Steve Hall" <digitect mindspring com>]

Joakim, great to hear from you again! Your timing is impeccable!

I pretty much followed your discussion with Jeff and agree with the
two template approach, the table one also being the low
bandwidth/Netscape 4/non-CSS/Lynx type, with the other CSS2 for
Moz/IE/Opera/Konq/etc. I started a table layout, but haven't had time
to finish yet. You could probably start over and be just as far along
in a few hours. 

My only concern with this approach is that it will likely mean two
sets of graphics with the current design, which could add considerably
to the maintenance effort. As it seems there are plenty more coders
than artists, I was hoping we could work around this limitation with a
more sophisticated approach to code. But that's just my perspective.

Now about design...

From: "Joakim Ziegler" <joakim ximian com>
> I quickly hacked together something that is in the same basic vein,
> but looks a bit cleaner:
> 
> http://www.avmaria.com/gnome-template/
> 

After seeing this, I'm sure you and I have different design tastes. ;)
While you call this cleaner, I'd say it looks flat. This grided,
two-dimensional look is hugely popular right now, but I'd say maybe a
bit dated. My intentions have always been to push the look towards a
three-dimensional feel, given that GNOME is about environment. It
might be a jump to call a desktop three dimensional, but why then do
we insist on beveled windows, textured controls and shadowed icons?
Answer: it's easier to see and manipulate. (When done right,
obviously.)

Given this difference, that explains why I like the realistic looking
top bar images, best expressed here:
  http://www.mindspring.com/~digitect/gnome/v2/ia-2-0-3-search02.html
It also explains my approach in this template to using deeper
coloring, shadowing the GNOME banner below the foot, the stark toe of
the foot sticking into the top bar, a beveled color stripe, etc., all
things that you mentioned in your comments as being less than
optimal.

Now having explained my point of view, let me just say that since it's
only a matter of taste, I have no problem going with your approach. I
think that since we're finally getting moving on implementation, the
design side of this project is now going to require some more effort
and time which fortunately you seem to have.

Sadly, this is what I have very little of at the moment. I'm studying
for professional exams for the next many months and it is unlikely
that I will be able to keep up with the pace. (This mostly explains my
recent temper tantrum about having to re-work templates and graphics
before we even had any back-end stuff to speed.)

This is the perfect time for you to get re-involved with the effort!
I'm staying on the list and if I can help out I'll be glad to take
direction or fill in whatever way I can. Who knows, I may still find
the occasional evening or two to contribute. But I'm glad for the
webhackers that there's somebody else that can be working on templates
and graphics while the back end is being put together.


Steve Hall  [ digitect mindspring com ]