Re: Gnome-Shell - questions and opinions

[Nex6 <borg borg1911 com>]

On 1/1/2011 6:55 AM, Giovanni Campagna wrote:
> Il giorno ven, 31/12/2010 alle 01.42 -0800, Nex6 ha scritto:
> > On 12/29/2010 02:50 PM, Giovanni Campagna wrote:
> > > Il giorno mer, 29/12/2010 alle 14.17 -0800, Nex6 ha scritto:
> > > > hi all,
> > > Current (2.91.4 / git master) gnome-shell experience is very different
> > > from the Fedora 14 packaged one (2.31.5). You should use jhbuild to get
> > > the latest version, follow instructions at
> > > http://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell#building
> >
> >
> > as soon as I get a chance I will upgrade to the latest.
>
> You really should. Many of the issues you report have been fixed (or
> anyway changed) in later versions, so it's like we're talking about two
> different programs.
>
> > > While being different is a marketing point, as it marks the reason for
> > > switching to GNOME, gnome-shell is not different for the sake of beign
> > > different, every design decision (including the most discussed ones, and
> > > including those still under discussion) have been made for its merits.
> > > Moving in particular to the zooming effect exposed by the Activities
> > > button, this has been reported many times by various users, but it is
> > > explicitly part of the design, as the purpose of that mode is to give an
> > > overview (hence the technical name, "Activities Overview") of active
> > > windows, applications, and tasks (in the future,>   3.1, it will have
> > > contacts, desktop search, zeitgeist logging, etc.).
> > > Still under discussion is the behaviour wrt window management inside the
> > > workspace. Some proposals concentrated on gesture-based window
> > > management + shading of minimized windows (possibly shading to icon
> > > only), other instead wanted a gesture or button to emulate Alt-tab, or
> > > showing the favourite application list on the left of the workspace.
> >
> >
> > while I, as a Systems Design Engineer fully understand the "its by
> > design" reasoning
> > and although I have not seen the latest builds the paradigm that
> > Gnome-Shell brings
> > does not necessary mean that its correct. in fact, the OSX influences
> > are very apparent.
> > and for the record I don't like them in OSX either... why should after I
> > login by default getting
> > to my first application is two clicks at least? (unless I create a
> > desktop shortcut?)
>
> Or you set up gnome-session to restore your previous session, or set
> that application to autostart.
> It is even better than gnome-panel (mouse to Applications, click, mouse
> to the relevant section, wait to open, mouse to the application, click),
> in gnome-shell you just mouse to hot-corner, wait to open, mouse to the
> application in the favorite list, click.

I am not crazy about the whole expose, overview workflow. i dont like it 
in OSX either. On my OSX machine (for work testing) i have different 
accounts configured differently. the one with expose turned off is the 
one i use the most. I will use Gnome shell, and will upgrade to the 
latest build when i get a chance. I tend to like quick-luanch icons.
which Gnome shell takes away.

sure, some people buy into the apple UI paradigm and they actually like 
it. and that's ok... but... at least apple allows you to flip expose 
off, and has the dock to have quick launch icons. and with Virtual 
desktops (spaces) you can work however you want....




> > and the whole, copying OSXs application view (which I think is terrible
> > in OSX) is likewise
> > a bad idea.  if it was combined with a category like view it would be
> > fine but the whole OSX
> > likeness is flawed. and is less useful then even OSX as I can turn off
> > expose in osx.
>
> There is a category view in current gnome-shell (but see bug 638271).
> For expose, I'm sorry that you don't like, but before we remove the
> feature or make it optional, we need to understand why you feel it is
> wrong.
>
> > while Gnome shell brings alot of good things that could be great, the
> > workflow and use patterns
> > seem very flawed. (at least with the build I have seen).
> >
> > if your going to try and be different the windows and OSX, at least
> > offer productivity gains
>
> Well, both the developers and the designers, as well as some early
> testers, reported improvements in workflow and usability with
> gnome-shell, compared to gnome-panel (default layout) + metacity.
> So this claim must be substantiated.

Some people like, very mouse driven click driven workflows. This is part 
of the apple UI paradigm. there is alot of great stuff in Gnome shell. 
but forcing a workflow, does not work.

even apple in all its dracionisms does not do this.






> > not costs....
> >
> > > > ok, why not:
> > > >
> > > > make the activities a drop down menu/sidebar with no zooming, or better
> > > > yet make it optional/move the zoom some where else.
> > > The main point of the Activities Overview is to show all the windows at
> > > the same time, so this does not make sense in the current design.
> >
> > flawed, if its the main view your interacting with. you can not add
> > icons to the taskbar only the desktop. and using
> > alt-tab is now broken as if I have 4 terminal windows open the alt tab
> > on loads all of them does not flip thru them as single windows.
>
> I don't understand your first sentence. You can add icons to the app
> view, both in previous and current layout (assuming that is the thing
> you call "taskbar").
> For alt-tab behaviour, that is still under discussion, and may change
> before final release. Try searching "alt-tab" in bugzilla and comment
> there.
>
> > > > next:
> > > >
> > > > make it possible to add icons/shortcuts to the top menu bar. infact make
> > > > it easy to do so like add a right click menu item under add to
> > > > favorites, as add to top menu. (make it movable)
> > > Why clobbering the top menu bar, when adding a favourite is just as
> > > clean and fast?
> > > (I'm referring to the new overview layout here, 2.31.5 still has the old
> > > layout, please update to see what I mean)
> >
> > again its flawed, as it makes everything two clicks, why? and forces you
> > into the expose like zooming
> > which screws with your eyes and focus.
>
> Well, but launching an application is not something you do every two
> seconds, is it?
> Actually, it involves a change in task and focus, so the overview is
> more than appropriate for it.

but, it should not cost a click, and a expose eyeball splash to do so.

> > > > also in the same vain, add a, "add to desktop item"
> > > The desktop (as the icon view behind the windows) is going to die,
> > > either in 3.0 or 3.2. We should not add more features to it.
> > wow..  yup true design productivity lets over design just because we can.
>
> Well, the messy desktop we current have (invisible behind opened
> windows) is not exactly an example of "productivity", IMHO.
>
> Giovanni