Re: Proposal: Use Ubuntu's MeMenu and Session Menu in the top panel

On Tue, 2010-04-06 at 10:23 -0500, Ryan Peters wrote:
> On 04/05/2010 03:44 PM, Apoorva Sharma wrote: 
> > Would it be possible to make the panel system modular, like it is
> > right now. I understand that there have been discussions that have
> > culminated in the current gnome shell layout, but I'm sure people
> > have other preferences, etc. If the new panel was made modular and
> > extensible, it would make Gnome-shell work with everyone's needs.  
> > 
> > 
> > This Comment on OMGUbuntu's post regarding the gnome-shell status
> > area mockups says a lot:
> > 
> > 
> > I appreciate the same thing about the gnome team that i do about
> > Mark Shuttleworth: They're making decisions and rules to increase
> > cohesion and the looks of Linux. However, the difference between
> > them is that Marks decisions don't rule out adjustments to take out
> > his decisions, the Gnome-Team is kinda screwing us over. Only the
> > system gets to use the top bar? really? i can't put ANYTHING else up
> > there? No menus, no launchers, no IM, no nothing? So wait, what
> > happened to open and customizable? What happened to ability to
> > change?
> > 
> > 
> > Why can't Gnome-shell remain customizable? With a modular approach,
> > people would be able to put things where they want, and make
> > Gnome-Shell the perfect DE for them.
> > 
> > 
> > That being said, there is no reason why the well though out
> > positioning could be set as default.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Just my 2 cents. 
> > 
> > On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 10:03 AM, Ryan Peters
> > <sloshy45 sbcglobal net> wrote:
> >         Hello Apoorva, 
> >         
> >         
> >         On 04/04/2010 06:24 PM, Apoorva Sharma wrote: 
> >         > These two menus are a great innovation that makes the
> >         > gnome desktop very easy to use and modern (integrated with
> >         > the web). Is it possible to use these menus, by porting
> >         > them to look like the System Status menus? 
> >         > 
> >         > 
> >         > I think it would be an improvement
> >         > 
> >         > 
> >         > _______________________________________________
> >         > gnome-shell-list mailing list
> >         > gnome-shell-list gnome org
> >         >
> >         >   
> >         The main problem with that is that those applets aren't
> >         exactly "available upstream" and are designed specifically
> >         for Ubuntu. For example, the MeMenu is designed to integrate
> >         with Ubuntu's default applications, and we shouldn't require
> >         that people be using these applications. Plus, these panel
> >         applets are unnecessary because GNOME Shell already includes
> >         most of their functionality elsewhere, making it redundant
> >         to re-code those applets into JavaScript (which GNOME Shell
> >         is written in, as far as I know). A better idea would be to
> >         use the future Add-Ons system to allow the search bar in the
> >         GNOME Shell overlay to integrate with Gwibber/Pino/whatever
> >         application(s) you choose.
> >         
> >         We appreciate your proposal (regardless of the fact that I'm
> >         not on the development team), but doing this is rather
> >         unnecessary at this point.
> >         
> >              - Ryan Peters, GNOME Shell Tester
> >         
> >         
> >         _______________________________________________
> >         gnome-shell-list mailing list
> >         gnome-shell-list gnome org
> >
> >         
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> First of all, if you're going to reply, make sure that you're replying
> to the Gnome Shell mailing list alone. The other members haven't
> received your message because you sent it to just me. Second, what are
> you talking about? The panel is modular, just not in the same way it
> used to be. It's fully customizable via JavaScript/CSS (think Firefox
> here); all we need now is an easy way to manage "add-ons" for this
> purpose.
> We're breaking compatability with the old panel applets because, quite
> frankly, the old panel was "a mess" (according to the GNOME developers
> at least). While on the outside the panel looks fine, on the inside it
> isn't so pretty; that's why it's being re-designed for GNOME Shell.
> Also, you do know that the GNOME Panel as we know it has been around
> for approximately 10 years (give or take a few)? No wonder the panel
> seems so "functional and extensible": there has been lots and lots of
> time for people to design applets for it. Once GNOME Shell has been
> around for as long as the GNOME Panel, because of how easy it is to
> customize, I can guarantee that there will be even more customizations
> for it than the GNOME Panel ever had.
> Also, the notification area shouldn't have a random collection of
> icons; this is making it more organized. The application-specific ones
> could possibly be in a drop-down-grid-style menu or something, or even
> on the bottom with the application notifications or the overlay. Keep
> in mind that if you like your GNOME Panel more than GNOME Shell, you
> can always use it for the first few releases of GNOME 3. You aren't
> forced to use the Shell (I'm thinking of doing this until someone
> develops a replacement for Panflute ;) ).
>     - Ryan Peters, GNOME Shell tester
> P.S. Maybe KDE is your thing more than GNOME is; they seem to care
> quite a lot more about customization.
> _______________________________________________
> gnome-shell-list mailing list
> gnome-shell-list gnome org

Don't get me wrong - I love using gnome-shell, and agree with many of
the design decisions that have been made. However, I feel that not
everyone will agree with these decisions, but for the average gnome
user, it is hard to change. For example, if John Doe likes the overlay,
but wants the panel to have the clock on the right instead of the
center, he should be able to change that. If he likes notifications to
be handled by notify-osd instead of the message area, he should be able
to change that.

That said, there is nothing stopping (and I highly encourage) the
gnome-team from making the default install have a setup that follows
their design decisions. However, these decisions shouldn't be forced on
the user. 

One thing I've always liked about GNOME is that I could use it how I
want - it didn't force me to use it in any certain way. Now, I feel this
quality is going away.

I don't want people to turn down the major benefits that come with Shell
just because of some small issues they have with its arrangement or

That said, Gnome-Shell isn't anywhere near a stable release, so I'm sure
these the things that GNOME 2 does better than GNOME 3 will be fixed.

PS: I don't like KDE, and I didn't mean to hit reply, but rather "reply
all" it was a careless mistake.

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