[gnome-love] Re: GNOME Lovers Needed: l10n work for locations database

[Adam Weinberger <adamw gnome org>]

Adam Weinberger wrote:
> Alan Horkan wrote:
>
> > On Mon, 13 Dec 2004, Adam Weinberger wrote:
> >
> >
> > > David Lodge wrote:
> > >
> > > > Quoting Danilo Å egan <danilo gnome org>:
> >
> >
> >
> > > > > > I don't think we have a policy of using American English in the 
> > > > > > msgid.
> > > > > > We discussed this before, and I proposed to have a more thorough
> > > > > > discussion at the Guadec meeting in Krisiansand, but there was no
> > > > > > meeting on this in Kristiansand. Maybe next time. My suggestion is 
> > > > > > that
> > > > > > we continue to use English English, as it is more used around the 
> > > > > > world.
> > > > > > and needs less modifications when going from one version of 
> > > > > > English to
> > > > > > another.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > So, it is recommended for at least documentation.
> > > > >
> > > > > OTOH, we already have all the code in U.S. English, and we have en_GB
> > > > > team (and no en_US team).
> >
> >
> >
> > > > > Switching now to British English is going to cause many problems for
> > > > > other translators as well.
> >
> >
> >
> > > > I fully agree with Danilo - even though I don't like American 
> > > > English (being
> > > > British ;-) - I realise that the majority of GNOME developers and 
> > > > users either
> > > > speak or have been taught American English. With my own 
> > > > correspondance with
> > > > NNES I have noted that, for Europe at least, American spelling and 
> > > > grammar is
> > > > taught in preference to British and with the homogenity of American 
> > > > documents
> > > > this is probably the safer option.
> > > >
> > > > As the en_GB teams does exist (though it seems to just be me at the 
> > > > moment!) I
> > > > see nothing wrong with stating that all strings should be follow 
> > > > American
> > > > grammar and spelling.
> > > >
> > > > I have actually raised bugs where spellings have been mixed (mainly on
> > > > gnumeric).
> > > >
> > > > dave
> > >
> > >
> > > FWIW, as the maintainer of the Canadian English (en_CA) translations, I
> > > agree. People expect that if they don't request anything specific,
> > > they'll get American English spellings. This is a nearly universal truth
> > > across software projects, it seems, and more to do with convention than
> > > with a recognition of what the majority of the world sees as native
> > > spelling and grammar. Switching to en_GB as the default would make us
> > > the odd project out, and would serve to confuse more people than it
> > > would benefit.
> >
> >
> >
> > I always accepted the C locale as being equal to en_US, but I failed and
> > still fail to understand why if en_IE or en_AU is unavailable I do not
> > fall back to "en" and for "en" to be equal to en_GB which is still
> > considered to be standard English is it not?
> >
> > The worst part is when translators choose to use words like
> > Favourites/Favorites rather than simpler more sensible words like
> > Bookmarks which do not require localisation.  (I started a translation
> > once because I was sick of seeing an almost useless error message which
> > read "bogus document".  Anytime I hear "bogus" or "awesome" I cannot help
> > thinking it should be followed by "dude!")
> >
> > Ideally translators should use standard grammar common to both if at
> > all possible.
>
>
> Do you mean translators or developers?
>
> I will fix spelling errors, grammar errors, and situations where the 
> source string is confusing or unclear. But as a translator, it's my job 
> to /translate/ messages, not redesign the UI. If the authors meant 
> "bookmark," they'd have written "bookmark." My job is to make the UI 
> look natural to Canadians, not give better word choice. Even in apps 
> like gimp-gap where about 25% of the words in the source strings are 
> misspellings, poor word choices, or made-up words.
>
> The notion of "standard English" is irrelevant: again, we're not going 
> off of logic here, we're going off of convention. Our users expect that 
> if they don't specify any particular language, they'll get American 
> English spellings. That is how every other app/project does things too. 
> I don't believe that it's up to us to redecide that, even if, (and I 
> fully agree here), en_GB is what the majority of the world would rather 
> see.
>
> To fall back on an old stereotype, put it this way: don't ask too much 
> of Americans ;;) [BTW, I'm an American, but I'm in Canada pretending to 
> be Canadian]

Wow. What a great time not to realize that you've hit Reply-All instead 
of just plain old Reply. To how many lists did I just send this? 
Apologies to any I've offended here....

# Adam


--
Adam Weinberger
adamw magnesium net || adamw FreeBSD org
adamw vectors cx    ||   adamw gnome org
http://www.vectors.cx