Re: gnome-list Digest, Vol 109, Issue 7

[Marcus Rhodes <marcus1 thinqware com>]

Well, I've had about enough.

Who is Adam Tauno Williams, and for whom does he speak?  Not me.  And clearly not most of you, as the looming failures of Metro, Unity, and Gnome3 (not to mention KDE's equally useless and counter-productive 'modernity') all demonstrate.  (And these examples are relevant.)  (Where did you learn logic?)  Or is he not watching the download/sales figures?  Not that facts would matter.  He merely asserts his own, minority opinion is if it were established fact, when, clearly, it is not.

Indeed, he appears to me to be the Gnome3 variety of the deservedly much-maligned M$ Evangelists: Chauvinistically proclaiming the (imagined) virtues of the object of their veneration in the futile hope of silencing critics.  But the lion roars against the wind.  He should know when to shut up.

To those who, like me, hope for sanity and/or reality to return to the DE developers, you have my support.  Keep up the fight.  Refuse to 'upgrade' (which might instead be called a downgrade).  Switch to Mate or Cinnamon or LXLE or Xfce, and refuse to go back to Gnome.  I still use Ubuntu 10.04 on most (4) of my machines, and experimenting with Mint on another.  I'm determined to find a way to make Mate work well enough to suite my needs.  Once it does, Gnome will never see me again.

I used tablets and PDAs from pen-Windows (1996) until I surrendered my Clie in 2005.  It is with considerable authority and experience that I can say that I, for one, will NEVER again touch my screen because I will never again use a device which warrants it.  (I don't even want to have to use the mouse or touchpad any more than absolutely necessary.)  (And if the DE makes it more necessary, I'll be finding one that doesn't.)

And I don't care how powerful any phone becomes; It's form factor necessarily precludes any possibility of it becoming my work tool.  My phone will be very small and simple with a big battery, and my laptop will tether through it.  Otherwise, it will be a phone, and nothing more.  And the laptop's UI will NOT look anything the phone's crippled system, which means that it also will NOT remotely resemble Unity or Gnome3.  EVER.  No matter how much Tauno insists that it will happen.  It won't.

Look, Tauno, all touch UIs suffer from the same malady: They are *compromises* imposed by the form-factor, not the preferred mode.  Where the form-factor does not dictate such a compromise, the need and want for a better, more productive solution will always prevail.  That's why Windows eclipsed DOS to begin with.  Not because it was 'modern' or even 'cool'.  It actually enhanced productivity.  UI/DE developers who fail to recognize, and adapt to this reality will find themselves eclipsed by those who do.  Geez!  Even Microsoft has woken up to their mistake, and is promising to give users back their desktops, and, more importantly, their start-menus ... for free.

Learn the lesson of jQuery and jQuery mobile.  They had the wisdom to provide (and maintain) both, rather than abandon the desktop in favor of a lowest-common-denominator, one-size-fits-all approach necessarily deferring to touch-screen-hobbled devices.

-----Original Message-----
From: gnome-list-request gnome org
Reply-to: gnome-list gnome org
To: gnome-list gnome org
Subject: gnome-list Digest, Vol 109, Issue 7
Date: Fri, 17 May 2013 12:00:04 +0000

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: gnome3, yet another negative feedback (Adam Tauno Williams)
   2. Re: gnome3, yet another negative feedback, install a "new'
      gnome 2.32 (Sergio de Almeida Lenzi)
   3. Re: gnome3, yet another negative feedback, install a "new'
      gnome 2.32 (Adam Tauno Williams)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 16 May 2013 11:57:55 -0400
From: Adam Tauno Williams <awilliam whitemice org>
To: gnome-list gnome org
Subject: Re: gnome3, yet another negative feedback
Message-ID: <1368719875 3866 28 camel linux-86wr site>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"

On Thu, 2013-05-16 at 14:01 +0400, Alexey Blinov wrote:
> I wish Gnome3 would use "classic" computer hardware, like keyboard and
> mouse with 3 buttons (and a wheel)

Fortunately it does!  So your wish is granted.

>  -- *fully* exploiting these classic hardware controls (I won't
> explain, probably everybody who tried Gnome3, understands what I
> mean).

Nope, I use it all day every day and have no clue what this [or all the
similar vague railings] means.  I use multiple large displays, keyboard
and mouse.  It works perfectly well with GNOME shell, and GNOME shell
exploits all the resources very effectively.

>  Probably the target was all those touch-controlled screens, that's
> fine, but also keep the desktop GUI for classic hardware.

No, no, and no.  This meme is just a tired saw.  The target was to
create a modern and effective desktop.  A goal achieved.

> (As to videocard-accelerated effects.. I do welcome them, nice, eye
> candy, but to me, interested first in getting work done, they are of
> much less importance)

Yes, and GNOME does this.  Effects can be minimized, if required.
Although it runs perfectly well on both my Chromebook [running openSUSE
12.3] and my 6 year old 32-bit laptop.  

> (I tried Gnome 3.4 in new Debian 7 wheezy.)

That is 2+ major releases old.  GNOME 3.6 changed how video
'acceleration' was managed.  [which I can only guess is what your
complaint is - since you do not specify].

> Thank you, and keep up the good work. Literally: keep up the Gnome2 :)

Sorry,  GNOME 2 is done, dead, and buried.

-- 
Adam Tauno Williams <mailto:awilliam whitemice org> GPG D95ED383
Systems Administrator, Python Developer, LPI / NCLA



------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Thu, 16 May 2013 17:49:43 -0300
From: Sergio de Almeida Lenzi <lenzi sergio gmail com>
To: awilliam whitemice org
Cc: gnome-list gnome org
Subject: Re: gnome3, yet another negative feedback, install a "new'
	gnome 2.32
Message-ID: <1368737383 2685 25 camel lenovo lenzicasa>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

> up the Gnome2 :)
> 
> Sorry,  GNOME 2 is done, dead, and buried.
> 

NOT so fast....

I rebuild gnome2 with kernel 3.9 kms, systemd, wicd, applets... gtk3,
libreoffice 4.0.3, gvfs... the same port
that FreeBSD 9.1 uses (and it works very well, I am wirtting 
this from the gnome interface.. 
this nis different from the cinamon or mate... this is GNOME 2.32 build
over an up to date
kernel 3.9.X

You may say I am crazy, I am old (yes I am, 62 years old, and
counting...) the clients
still likes the old interface, as they love the old windows XP.

When (and if) gnome3 offers the same easy to use interface, whith
panels, 
desktop with icons, drop down menus, I will switch to gnome3. 

Microsoft made a mistake to change the user interface, (dont be fooled
by the media...)
what is the success of Apple???   they did dnot change the user
interface... 
Apple offeers 2 user interface (the iphone, and the Ibook)... when they
will invent
another interface, they will put it in the new hardware too,  so new
users,
will "embrace" new interface...

Done...

For those want to test...
you need a "brand" new archlinux with only the base system installed....
edit pacman.conf
and put BEFERE the core entry....

[gnome2]
SigLevel = Optional TrustAll
Server = http://gnome2.k1.com.br:81/$arch

than... 
Pacman -Sy gnome2  
this installs about 400 modules...
of course I did not have the opportunity to test all modules
deppendencies, so if a module reports missing....
just do a pacman -Sy module

The sistem is 64bis arch is X86-64
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Message: 3
Date: Thu, 16 May 2013 16:57:29 -0400
From: Adam Tauno Williams <awilliam whitemice org>
To: gnome-list gnome org
Subject: Re: gnome3, yet another negative feedback, install a "new'
	gnome 2.32
Message-ID: <1368737849 3866 38 camel linux-86wr site>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"

On Thu, 2013-05-16 at 17:49 -0300, Sergio de Almeida Lenzi wrote:
> > up the Gnome2 :)
> > Sorry,  GNOME 2 is done, dead, and buried.
> NOT so fast....

That doesn't make it a 'live project'.  I have lots of old code I
continue to build, its still old code, subject to bit-rot, and
unmaintained.

> When (and if) gnome3 offers the same easy to use interface,
> desktop with icons,

It does support "desktop with icons",  I use it that way.  it is just a
setting.

>  drop down menus,

It does that, there are several menu oriented extensions and I believe
the 'legacy mode' supports that as well.

As for panels - now there the bar and extensions can populate them. So
six of one, half dozen of the other.

> Microsoft Apple

Neither are relevant here.