Re: gnome-help (yelp) and info/manual pages

Petri Kanerva wrote:

On Wed, 2004-12-08 at 10:54 +0100, Toralf Lund wrote:
Shaun McCance wrote:

On Mon, 2004-12-06 at 10:00 +0100, Toralf Lund wrote:

Shaun McCance wrote:

On Fri, 2004-12-03 at 19:07 +0100, Toralf Lund wrote:

After upgrading to Fedora Core 3 w/ GNOME 2.8, I can no longer use commands like

yelp info:cat


gnome-help man:cat

to display info or manual pages. Why?
In Gnome 2.6, the document transformation system was changed in Yelp.
This resulted in much faster and nicer DocBook conversions, which is
Yelp's primary purpose.  The existing man and info converters weren't
using the new transformation system, so they were disabled.

Is this mentioned in the release notes???
Did you look?

Of course I did...
December/msg00008.html [ etc ]

This has been discussed to death in every web forum, mailing list, IRC
channel, newsgroup, barber shop, and coffee house on our planet and

I admit I didn't follow the mailing lists etc. closely. Those aren't the *release notes*, though. These are the ones:

The most relevant part is the "changes" section, I'd say, i.e.

Well, a bit late, but just wanted to say, that you are dead wrong in
this one. Before hostile comments like this it's usually wise to get
your own facts correct.

The announce message there, is from gnome-announce-mailinglist, where
new software is announced to the users, and thatpost there -is- the
releasenotes for -that- package. The announces contain clips of the
softwares -changelog-, which is also in the softwares package. So the
changes conserning Yelp, were actually fully reported in the changelog
of the Yelp package.

All changes to all packages can't be in the Gnome-platform changelog,
coz the file would then be several mb's in size. It only details some of
the -biggest- changes, which this was not. For more detailed list of
changes, everyone can look in certail packages own Changelog.
I don't agree. You can't require that all users follow the gnome-announce mailing list to be able to find out what's new in a GNOME release, especially if you want GNOME to catch on among "simple users" (and that goal seems to be part of the background for the changes discussed.) Actually, I don't think you should expect them to be too aware of the "package" concept at all. In principle, users upgrade *GNOME*, or even the whole operation system, not packages. And when they do, they must be able to find out all about what changed from one source of information. OK, not details on every cosmetic change or minor functionality update, but I don't think what we're talking about here is that minor, and it's also *removed* functionality, which is much more important to mention.

I don't think the "changes" document would get overly large if you added an item like

   * The help system can no longer view info or manual pages.

and similar ones for changes of the same magnitude. Actually, it could definitely grow quite a bit without hurting anyone.

Also, as far as I cab tell, there isn't a changelog included with the yelp *package* (as opposed to the source code repository) - I can't find it in the variant I have, anyway.

- Toralf

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