Re: Workspaces

On Wed, Dec 03, 2003 at 01:41:11PM +1100, Malcolm Tredinnick wrote:
> On Wed, 2003-12-03 at 13:17, Michael H. Warfield wrote:
> > On Thu, Oct 23, 2003 at 05:02:48PM -0400, Dominic Amann wrote:
> > > It seems that the "debate" between workspaces and viewports happened 
> > > back in January, someplace between someone's ears, and the decision was 
> > > made to drop viewports, and use workspaces.
> > 
> > 	I like that "someplace between someone's ears".  What we use
> > to call in support as "operator headspace" when someone did something
> > penultimately stupid.

> Please take your invective somewhere else. It is uninformed and
> unenlightening.

> Whilst hesitating to introduce facts into your argument, for your
> information, the workspace vs. viewport discussion happened on public
> mailing lists back in late 2001 and the first half of 2002 -- it did not
> happen in Jan 2003 and was not done in somebody's head. The debate has
> resurfaced periodically since then, but without anything pertinent being
> added. Reasonably summaries of the rationale behind the decision and the
> opposition case can be found by browsing the archives of
> desktop-devel-list in the couple of months leading up to the release of
> GNOME 2.0 (June 2002).

	I wasn't stating when the discussion took place.  I did puruse
the archives and found most of the arguements uniformed and unenlighening.
Mostly on the order of "we don't care what your reasons were, we don't
want to do it".

> You may not agree with the decision (I did not, at the time), but
> calling it stupid is unreasonable. If you would like to use a window

	It was stupid to break existing functionality.  Whether you agreed
with the feature or not.  I found the comments about "well, you can just
do everything under workspaces and you don't need viewports" highly
uniformed and arrogant that someone would presuppose how others were
working or should work.  It was obviously ignorant since you CAN'T
do everything under workspaces that you can under viewports.  Only
takes one example and there have been several.  QED.

> manager with viewports, then go for it.

	Been trying to do that.  RedHat has not made it any easier with
infinite layers of dependency hell.

>					GNOME is not a window manager.
> It does work fairly well with EWMH-compliant window. For example,
> searching the archives I point to above (or reading the old GNOME 2.0
> release notes) will show you how to set up Sawfish to have a viewport
> behaviour.

	Now you have my interest.  I had tried, unsuccessfully, to drop
back to Sawfish to regain that functionality but I still couldn't get it
to work.  I got SawFish to run, but I still didn't seem to have that
functionality.  I did search the archives and couldn't find any reference.
I'm definitely going to try and track down that old GNME 2.0 release
notes and find that reference since it will get me out of this trap
I've been dumped in where I can't upgrade.  I thank you for that.  I've
been in desperate need of that information and it hasn't been apparent
where it was or if it even existed.  (If you have a particular link in
mind, I would appreciate that...  Sounds like you know exactly what I've
been looking for...)

	Sometimes, if what it takes is a flameball of invective to get
some answers, so be it.  The original postings didn't get any responses
to them at all (constructive or otherwise).  At least you gave me something
constructive to work from.  The others didn't get that much...  Think about
it...  They didn't get any answer.  I, at least, got an answer.  Yes, it
was deliberate and yes it sucks when someone has to do that, but there it
is.  Maybe, this should be in an FAQ somewhere where the search engines or
casual browsers can find it.  I've been looking.  You just provided me
with more than what I've been able to find to date.  Maybe I didn't know
what search terms to use or what to look for, but now I have a lead and
that's more than I had two hours ago.

> Malcolm

	No offense was intended...  Merely frustration.  But this did
prove to be productive!

	Thanks once again!

 Michael H. Warfield    |  (770) 985-6132   |  mhw WittsEnd com
  /\/\|=mhw=|\/\/       |  (678) 463-0932   |
  NIC whois:  MHW9      |  An optimist believes we live in the best of all
 PGP Key: 0xDF1DD471    |  possible worlds.  A pessimist is sure of it!

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