Menu Premise (was Re: tmfkap, File, &c)

[John R Sheets <dusk smsi-roman com>]

Samuel Solon wrote:
> 
> Hmmm -- you are making the assumption that *most* people in the world can
> discover the logical concepts underlying the organizational phenomenon,
> abstract it to a set of principles and then reapply those principles to the
> next, similar, concrete example of the phenomenon they encounter.
> 
> I don't know if most people can do this, but my experience is that many
> people don't.

That's a very valid point.  I made that same assumption, and am
now beginning to rethink my position.

> >> And the advantages on the other side are?
> >yet to be determined.
> >how about we really mock up something in the way proposed and then send it
> >around to give it some real-life testing? I'm pretty sure it would give us a
> >whole new array of arguments.
> >
> >
> 
> This disturbs me most of all. In order to conduct tests you need to have
> premise that can be proven true or false. You seem to have no such premise
> to test.

You're right.  No doubt a clearly-stated premise would work
wonders to cut down the noise levels on this list.

> You seem to indicate that users will grasp the left to right, most
> inclusive to least inclusive menu ordering, but it isn't clear that this
> will yield any improvement in either the user experience or their
> productivity.

You present a very convincing argument, Sam (the best defense
I've yet heard on this subject).  

> I would guess most menu systems are task oriented and most users are task
> oriented also. They are using a particular application to accomplish a
> particular task and the application should help them accomplish tasks.
> 
> I feel like I've rambled here but I now believe that you want to enforce a
> particular abstract organization on applications; a hierarchal organization
> based on the hierarchy of data/structures/information.

No, you've cut right to the point.  I think the core of the menu
premise should be whether the menus should be organized according
to scope, or to task.  I don't have any specific ideas yet.  Does
anyone else?

John