Re: Proposal for First Draft of GNOME Style Guide 1.1

[Bowie Poag <bjp primenet com>]

> No, but mailing lists don't require syncronizing schedules.  The time for
> the IRC conference seems to have been picked out of a hat.  At no point
> was the question raised, "I am thinking of an IRC conference, when works
> for people?"  After it was clear that many people here could not make it,
> there was no discussion of changing the time.  Just, sorry that's the way
> it is, live with it.  I strongly doubt the GIMP developers were that
> cavalier with their IRC conferences.

Ah, for the 387th time, now:

 o No matter what time you select for live conferences, someoneone, in
   some part of the world, is going to get screwed over. This is why we
   plan on having SEVERAL conferences, to be held at different times.

 o No discussion was had regarding "changing the time", because I know
   what the heck i'm doing. Announcement of the conference has reached
   approximately 250,000+ people. Trying to issue a notice for
   rescheduling such an event, even if it WERE necessary to do so, would
   only serve to confuse everyone. Half the people wouldnt even read
   such a notice.

> 
> Also, nobody has seen anything to discuss in IRC.  What, are we all going
> to have to sit through DCC SENDS of pieces of the style guide just to talk
> about it?

Its not necessary for the IRC audience to have a firm grasp of what has
been discussed so far -- Theyre taken by the hand, and walked through the
process. They answer 20 questions, and talk openly about a few issues.  
Go visit http://www.primenet.com/~bjp -- Select the Conference Guide link.

> The mailing list is an ideal place for this, a place which Bowie is not
> making use of.

The mailing list is ideal for some topics, live IRC conferences are ideal
for others. The things being covered at the IRC conference are ideal for
an IRC audience. Thats why were *having* the Conferences.

> 
> Listcentric is not a problem.  The people who want to contribute to GNOME
> will go to the GNOME site.  If they want to be involved in gnome
> devlopment, they go to the mailing list page, they see a line referring to
> GUI development.  Those who want to work on GUI devlopment (such as the
> Style Guide), will go there.  That's why I came here.  That's the point,
> this is the list of people who want to work on the GNOME style guide.
> 
> Puting public forum on IRC makes it open to people who don't care all that
> much, but are bored at the time.  Advertising it as widely as it has been
> ensures that anyone who wants to make our lives dificult will be there.
> This mailing list will not allow non-subscribers to post.  This enforces
> accountability, which the Undernet does not.
> 
> I still say that this list is an appropriate place for discussing the
> details of the Style Guide.  I also still say that IRC is not an
> appropriate place.  If enough people really want it to be on IRC, much
> more attention needs to be paid to scheduling, pre-dawn monday morning is
> a decidedly bad time to hold a meeting.

I get the feeling you`re sore, because the general public is now in on the
fun, and theyre taking some of the pie away from the folks on the mailing
list. I still fail to see why including the general public's input
regarding a few specific* issues is a bad idea -- For all the screaming
and complaining I heard last week regarding how the formation of the UISG
should be a "totally open" process.. Well, now you have a totally open
process. Its time to stop complaining, and get to work.

Bowie

* = By "specific" issues, these are things which are best addressed by a
wide audience. Simple things, nowhere near the complexity dealt with here
on the mailing list.