Re: gnome-db/TOAD/gASQL (was Re: [gnome-db]Access-like prkect)

[Adam Tauno Williams <awilliam whitemice org>]

>>>* AFAIK, GNOME-DB is composed of some low level widgets (to manage libgda 
>>>connections, to connect to a database, a tabular view of a recordset, etc), 
>>>and of some higher level applications like gnomedb-fe and the rolodex (which I
>>>believe does not evolve a lot anymore). gASQL uses the GNOME-DB "low level 
>>>widget" and is also a high level application (like gnomedb-fe).
>>My conception is of GNOME-DB as providing a GUI configuration process, a very
>>simple tool for blasting out arbitrary SQL statements,  and a widget set (much
>>like Borland provides for its development platforms).  Under the theory that a
>>great DB-aware widget set + good development tools (GLADE, etc...) will yield
>>abundant and good database applications.  I think this formula has worked very
>>well for that other operating system.
>that's a very good point for concentrating on the GDA engine and the
>widget set, and just have gnomedb-fe be a tool for making things quickly.

And for making sure something like GLADE stays in sync with GNOME-DB
releases.  (I have no idea of the current state of things).
 
>>>* now, about gnomedb-fe and gASQL: in my point of view, the two do not
>>>cover the same area: I see more gASQL like an "acces like" application, and 
>>>gnomedb-fe like a swiss army knife for the databases. They do however have 
>>>some functionnalities in common. I do use gnomedb-fe sometimes when I want 
>>>to do some things without all the constrains gASQL imposes.
>>I don't view them as competing.  GDA + GNOME-DB provides infrastructure. 
>>gnomedb-fe = "ODBC Driver Manager" with a few enhancements (SQL editor  /
>>executor).  I can see someone wanting to run a GNOME-DB app (say an accounting
>>package) and installing GNOME-DB,  using gnomedb-fe to setup the connection,
>>installing the GNOME-DB app.  Maybe occasionally using the gnomedb-fe to
>>diagnose/fix a few problems now and then,  but otherwise just using the app. 
>>Said user may have no intrest in something like gASQL.
>yes, if it is integrated into GNOME-DB :-) power users will have their
>SQL scripts, and this sort of things, but new users (or users coming from
>Windows) will find very attractive a tool like gASQL

True.  I think tie-ing the releases of GNOME-DB and gASQL would be a
good thing.  Maybe splitting the configuration "utility" from the
database "tool" (gnomedb-fe, gASQL) would be the solution.  Setting up a
connection should simple and light,  as the connection is all some
people will be interested in.  For example, ODBC Driver Manager is just
that, a driver manager.

>>gASQL is an Access/Paradaox/dBase-ish tool.  For people who spend their day
>>plowing about inside database, populating tables, searching data, etc...
>but this is what worries me. I mean, if you use databases, and install a
>DB app, you may want to just have a SQL execution frontend, but other users
>may find this horrible. And, for example, GNOME-DB is included in GNOME Office 
>(whatever it is), and when there is a GNOME Office release, people will
install
>this office suite with MS Office in mind, and having GNOME-DB limited
to power
>users (users that know SQL) will maybe make a bad impression of
GNOME-DB, and,
>maybe of the whole suite. That's why I worry about having  gASQL+GNOMEDB-FE 
>functionality merged
>Of course, a solution to this would be to try to push gASQL into GNOME
>Office

I like this idea.
 
>but, for example, Carlos is developing a report engine, and it seems a
>nice thing to me to allow users to view their reports from gnome-db, not
>by having to install or develop an application. The same happens with
>any single feature we may add to libgda: GNOME-DB is the frontend for
>GNOME of libgda, so it seems sensible to offer an UI for all the
>functionalities. And, if some of those functionalities are also in
>gASQL, we're, firstly duplicating effort (even worst in our case, since
>Vivien is the gASQL maintainer, but he's also one of the most prolific
>contributors in GNOME-DB), and secondly, doing a bad favour to gASQL.
>>>So, to summarize, I would say that we need the two applications. However
>>>what could be nice is:
>>>* show the two applications as part of GNOME-DB: we could say that
>>>GNOME-DB is made of two applications that are gnomedb-fe and gASQL and has a
>>>GNOME-DB-devel package to  make your own applications using parts of 
>>>gnomedb-fe or gASQL
>>Yes. I'd almost classify gnomedb-fe as a "utility" rather than an "application".
>this is nice for me, only am I thinking about end users, which may be looking

I have ~200 users,  many of whom use Access based apps, but using the
Access run-time.  Query and form builders would very much confuse them.
The full version vs. run-time option is a nice feature.  Small machines,
users who just want to do X, etc...  benefit from discreet modules.