Re: [g-a-devel] How to imlement ARIA's owns and hasparent in ATK (which relations)

[David Bolter <david bolter utoronto ca>]

Hi Aaron,

Thanks for the explanation of "owns".  Sounds like we agree on child 
of.  Perhaps we should add the inverse relation to the atk/at-spi.

What will the IA2 mapping be?

cheers,
David

Aaron Leventhal wrote:
> ARIA owns is for things where there are children, but they are not 
> contained by the parent.
> This is necessary to separate 2 types of parent concept:
> 1. Parent as a container with children inside (like a groupbox or a 
> document) -- this is the normal use of parent in an accessible object 
> hierarchy
> 2. Parent as something which logically groups external items, as in a 
> parent tree item, a menu item with a submenu, a button with a popup, or 
> a diagram object with children, such as in an organizational chart. This 
> is the concept of ARIA owns.
>
> I'm not sure that ARIA really differentiates between the popup and 
> non-popup case of owns. Owns doesn't care if the owned items are 
> currently visible.
>
> Child of sounds right, but then the inverse relation isn't there.
>
> - Aaron
>
>
> David Bolter wrote:
>   
> > Aaron Leventhal wrote:
> >   
> >     
> > > We need to support the owns=[idrefs] relation, as well as hasparent=[idref].
> > > They are basically the same, but owns allows you do create the 
> > > definition on the owner vs. hasparent on what's owned.
> > > Owns can have more than 1 item, hasparent can contain only 1 ID. It's 
> > > probable that hasparent will be removed before ARIA becomes final.
> > >
> > > Which ever is used, the user agent can expose both sides of the 
> > > relationship via AT-SPI and IA2.
> > >
> > > We need to figure out which AT-SPI relations we should use for each. 
> > > Here are the possibilities:
> > >
> > > RELATION_MEMBER_OF
> > > RELATION_NODE_CHILD_OF
> > > RELATION_SUBWINDOW_OF
> > > RELATION_EMBEDS
> > > RELATION_EMBEDDED_BY
> > > RELATION_POPUP_FOR
> > > RELATION_PARENT_WINDOW_OF
> > >
> > > Definitions of owns and haspopup here:
> > > http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/adaptable/
> > >   
> > >     
> > >       
> > I don't have a login for this. But I did find this definition of the 
> > owns relation: 'The owns property defines an object as a parent of 
> > another document element, however the child does not appear directly in 
> > the subtree of the owner."
> > (http://www.w3.org/TR/aria-state/)
> >
> > This definition makes is sound like an ancestor-of kind of relation but 
> > I'd like clarity here. Is there an implied containment? Or an implied 
> > "within subtree" (if you know what I mean)?
> >
> > Here is my attempt at a deductive approach based on this interpretation 
> > of "owns" and having re-read the at-spi docs (and after a couple of 
> > glasses of wine):
> >
> > RELATION_MEMBER_OF
> >   * I don't understand the at-spi defintion of this relation clearly.
> > RELATION_NODE_CHILD_OF
> >  * possibly
> > RELATION_SUBWINDOW_OF
> >  * possibly but i don't like that it has "window" in the name... could 
> > be confusing
> > RELATION_EMBEDS
> >  * cross process definition doesn't fit.
> > RELATION_EMBEDDED_BY
> >  * ditto
> > RELATION_POPUP_FOR
> >  * popup is a subtype of "owns" correct? if so this doesn't seem to 
> > capture all of "owns"
> > RELATION_PARENT_WINDOW_OF
> >  * ditto comment to subwindow_of relation
> >
> > So I'd lean towards child_of but there is no reciprocal parent_of?
> >
> > What about RELATION_EXTENDED?
> >
> > Let's hear from the guru... Bill?
> >
> > D
> >
> >   
> >     
> > > Definitions of AT-SPI relations here:
> > > http://www.gnome.org/~billh/at-spi-idl/html/namespaceAccessibility.html#a215
> > >
> > >   
> > > Opinions?
> > >
> > > - Aaron
> > > _______________________________________________
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> > > Gnome-accessibility-devel gnome org
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