Re: [g-a-devel] Trying to understand STATE_SENSITIVE

[Bill Haneman <Bill Haneman Sun COM>]

Note however that ANY change will break stuff.  For instance some ATs 
are using ENABLED, others SENSITIVE, some both.  Real back-compatibility 
requires that we keep them all working.

Bill


Willie Walker wrote:
> I definitely agree it would be a good thing to deprecate unused and
> confusing states.  It would save everyone a lot of head scratching, and
> I have no problem with upsetting that apple cart.  Believe me, I've been
> down this path before and I still scratch my head.
>
> The particular apple cart I'm talking about is whether or not we change
> the semantics of ENABLED to be that of SENSITIVE and then get rid of
> SENSITIVE.  
>
> IMO, making an incompatible change solely for the purposes of this
> particular word choice is a change I'd rather not have to deal with.
> I'd rather just ditch ENABLED and live with the word choice of
> SENSITIVE.  However, that's only my "path of least impact" opinion
> (e.g., it wouldn't require potentially error prone changes to GAIL, OOo,
> and other implementations that may have already gotten it right), and I
> can acquiesce to the purification from naming pundits if so
> desired.  ;-)
>
> Will
>
> On Fri, 2007-01-19 at 11:59 -0500, David Bolter wrote:
>   
> > Hi Will,  I'm glad you are using your expertise here :-)
> >
> > FWIW I'm glad Aaron is kicking at the apple cart... we really should 
> > make sure it is solid.
> >
> > Apples do grow on trees after all..  :-P
> >
> > D
> >
> > Willie Walker wrote:
> >     
> > > Here's the Javadoc from AccessibleState in the Swing toolkit:
> > >
> > > http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.4.2/docs/api/javax/accessibility/AccessibleState.html#ENABLED
> > >
> > > If I recall correctly from when I helped define/write the Java
> > > Accessibility API almost 10 years ago(!), it corresponds directly to the
> > > value set here:
> > >
> > > http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.4.2/docs/api/java/awt/Component.html#setEnabled(boolean)
> > >
> > > When I look at the Java access bridge for GNOME, however, I see that
> > > perhaps my interpretation of SENSITIVE and ENABLED seems to be different
> > > from the interpretation made by the author of the bridge:
> > >
> > > http://svn.gnome.org/viewcvs/*checkout*/java-access-bridge/trunk/bridge/org/GNOME/Accessibility/StateTypeAdapter.java?content-type=text%2Fplain
> > >
> > > In any case, it looks like the Java API's use 'enabled' as their word.
> > > The word 'sensitive' seems to be a GTK-ism, and I'm guessing the whole
> > > enabled/sensitive state thing was invented with the AT-SPI.  At this
> > > point in time, however, I'm not sure of the value in upsetting the apple
> > > cart -- the best thing would be to make the docs better.
> > >
> > > Will
> > >
> > > On Fri, 2007-01-19 at 16:06 +0000, Bill Haneman wrote:
> > >   
> > >       
> > > > David Bolter wrote:
> > > >     
> > > >         
> > > > > sigh... make that "shouldn't have"...  ever had one of those days?
> > > > >
> > > > > D
> > > > >
> > > > >   
> > > > >       
> > > > >           
> > > > Yes :-)
> > > >
> > > > Folks, the truth is I just don't know/remember at the moment, without 
> > > > digging deep into the toolkits.  I'm on leave today and this weekend, so 
> > > > can't be all that useful until Monday.  I'll try to figure out, among 
> > > > other things, what this was supposed to mean in Java-land, because a 
> > > > number of states including the ones under current discussion were a 
> > > > legacy inherited from javax.accessibility.  Maybe Peter K. knows?
> > > >
> > > > I agree that we shouldn't drag useless stuff around forever, but my 
> > > > concern is that just because something doesn't make sense to myself and 
> > > > you guys at this moment, it doesn't mean that it wasn't useful and 
> > > > sensible when originally mooted.  Now seems like a good time to nail it 
> > > > down (and document it better than it was apparently documented before).
> > > >
> > > > Bill
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Gnome-accessibility-devel mailing list
> > > > Gnome-accessibility-devel gnome org
> > > > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-devel
> > > >     
> > > >         
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Gnome-accessibility-devel mailing list
> > > Gnome-accessibility-devel gnome org
> > > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-devel
> > >   
> > >       
>
> _______________________________________________
> Gnome-accessibility-devel mailing list
> Gnome-accessibility-devel gnome org
> http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-devel
>