Re: Proposal: Gabber and Gnome--

[Christian Fredrik Kalager Schaller <christian schaller oracle com>]

>Christian,
>
>If there is a strong consensus to include Gabber, we will do
>so. However, I am a bit negatively predisposed to the idea, for the
>reasons stated.
>
>In addition, Gabber would add an external dependency on one or more
>Jabber-related packages (presumably).
>
>Some comments on the reasons you propose for including it:
>
>> a) The inclusion of Gabber doesn't have to mean the exclusion of any
>> other instant messaging client.
>
>That's true, but including a lot of them would be bad (it would make
>releasing terribly complicated), and including only one or a few would
>be unfair to the rest. So I'd rather the GNOME core desktop stayed out
>of this area until there are clear winners.

As far as I know there are only two relativly feature complete chat
clients for GNOME, and
that is GnomeICQ and Gabber. All other are either Gtk only or at a
embryonic level.
Personally I feel that the point of these GNOME releases is showcasing
good Gnome based software, to show the world that GNOME offers a full
range of applications to take on Windows. IM clients is a part of what
people expect today, IMHO.  

One of the things that suprised me with the releaze of Helix GNOME was
how many people who discovered great GNOME applications like X-Chat and
Dia for the first time thanks to their inclusion in Helix GNOME. Having
stuff included in the Official GNOME 1.4 release will give the software
even wider distribution. It is my opinion that many new-to-linux users
who try  GNOME and don't find an expected application as part of their
'standard' installation, they often think that there isn't a application
or that it is a at very immature level, something
which can instead lead them to use other alternatives.

As for Jabber related dependencies, there is AFAIK none, expect Gtk--
and Gnome--. Julian offered to put Gnet into Gabber so remove that as a
separate dependency. Of course last time I checked Nautilus too used
Gnet, but that might have changed.
>
>> b) Jabber is IM system based on free software, which makes 'supporting'
>> it a good thing.
>>
>>So are IRC, Gale, Zephyr... the probelm with IM clients is that
>>there's so many to choose from.

AFAIK most of these doesn't have mature GNOME clients, but I want to
propose X-Chat for inclusion if it isn't already planned for inclusion.

>> c) Having Gabber included with GNOME is important as proof of concept
>> for booth for Gtk-- and Gnome --. 
>> 
>> d) It will help tell the world that the GNOME mantra of being able to
>> develop in any language you choose is more than just a slogan, but
>> something we actually live by instead of being a very C only oriented
>> crowd.
>
>I think being written in C++ should be a point neither in favor of nor
>against Gabber or any other app.

Ok, point d) was kinda lame ot at least inflamatory worded, but I still
think that point c) is very valid. Having a application included that
actually uses these libraries is important.

>
>> I second the suggestion of including Gabber in GNOME 1.4
>> 
>
>Noted :-)
>
>Further comments are hereby solicited.
>
> - Maciej

Don't want to start a flamewar over this, but as you can see from my
mail I am not in favour of the bare-bones approach to assembling Gnome
1.4 :)

Christian