Re: [Gimp-user] Save Export Complaints

> Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2012 13:34:07 +0200
> From: maderios gmail com
> To: gimp-user-list gnome org
> Subject: Re: [Gimp-user] Save Export Complaints
> Most software, digikam, phot$p, firefox, avidemux, libreoffice, doesnt
> work like gimp but with standard way.
> Greetings
> --
> Maderios

No, they are completely different, completely valid, (and sometimes completely non-comparable) paradigms.  You can't, for example, exactly "open" a binary .exe file, make a few changes, then "save" the results.  (Well, I suppose there's always hex editing, but binary machine code isn't like editing text or image files, not at all)

Another interesting note is how some applications (MS Office I'm looking at you) actually lock down the file on disk for as long as the current document of it is open.  I think this is to deliberately reinforce the notion that you are actually editing the file itself, even though what you see onscreen is just a loaded visualization of it and the file-on-disk doesn't reflect changes until you actually hit Save.  It also creates an annoying side effect where other applications can't access the file at all because the first one has a total lock (not just a write lock, but a read lock as well) on it.

Text-file editors are probably the one application that doesn't use its own preferred internal format.  Their purpose is to open an existing file in an editable manner and then output any changes back to the original file in the original format.

> Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2012 14:43:03 +0200
> From: maderios gmail com
> To: psiweapon gmail com; gimp-user-list gnome org
> Subject: Re: [Gimp-user] Save Export Complaints
> Hi
> I use .xcf files but my friends, my family members and most people, I
> think, don't use .xcf. They need an image editor, not an xcf editor.
> People will leave the world of free software to turn to proprietary.
> Gimp is no longer the "universal Swiss army knife " of image editing,
> it's a fact.

Bold emphasis mine.  My majority of GIMP usage tends to be preparing scanned images for Web publication.  That involves a small amount of digital noise cleanup, resizing to a proper resolution, sometimes a copyright overlay or two.  I do keep an xcf workfile where I think I will need it later, but at the same time the first thing I do with the high-resolution scan is to output it to a high-resolution JPG or PNG file (I can't trust my scan software to do that, especially with PNG)

> Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2012 13:56:03 +0100
> From: effluxion googlemail com
> To: alexandre prokoudine gmail com
> CC: gimp-user-list gnome org
> Subject: Re: [Gimp-user] Save Export Complaints
> If you open say a .png or whatever format in Gimp, work on it then
> "save" as in the old 2.6 method to .png you are not really "saving"
> all that exists in the Gimp project ...

BUT you may nonetheless be saving all the data that is relevant to THAT individual file/project/workflow.  If I open, say, a GIF image for some simple pixel editing, and I'm not adding any new data (alpha blending, etc.) to the image pixels that the GIF file format is incapable of recording, then the GIF file does indeed contain "all" of the data that is important to my task at hand.

Did you know that when you save an XCF file GIMP indeed does include everything about the open image (Undo history excepted), including the current selection mask?  Name any other program you can where even the current selection is considered a change to the open document that must be saved with the file.  I doubt that will be a long list.  (Heck, in current versions of MS Excel, when you do a Cut/Paste operation, the "Cut" part doesn't actually take effect until you do your first Paste!  A.k.a. it doesn't double as a way to immediately clear cell contents, as you would expect in almost every other application, even MS Word.  I personally find that confusing.)

> Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2012 09:50:50 -0400
> From: jfrazierjr nc rr com
> To: psiweapon gmail com; maderios gmail com; gimp-user-list gnome org
> Subject: Re: [Gimp-user] Save Export Complaints
> I am NOT a developer for GIMP, but I am enthusiastically in support of this new change so that I CANNOT lose my multi-layer composition without explicit consent as could (and did a few times) in previous versions of GIMP. I am speaking for myself here, but I would say "GIMP wants people to use GIMP's native file format". There are a large number of reasons for this, but saving multi-layer compositions is a key one.

(Mind the distinction between the words "lose" and "loose".  They are not the same meaning, not at all.)

The problem with the old model is that when you're working on a multilayer XCF and you save it to a non-XCF format, you're using the wrong command in the first place - you should have been using SAVE A COPY all along (which, 2.8.x file formats notwithstanding, is functionally identical to Export anyway).  Because once you "Save As..." your multilayer composition to a non-XCF format, any further "Save" operations (i.e. all those Ctrl+S's) target the non-XCF file, and if you quit without a manual, deliberate "Save As..." back to the XCF then you can and do lose work.  Plus, even if the target file couldn't contain all data in the image (multiple layers, etc.) GIMP still wiped the image status clean, doesn't ask to save changes when you close it, so you can find yourself losing such work without any warning.

All because you were doing it wrong in the first place.

I guess I'm one of the lucky few who has never actually lost work in a save-and-quit scenario.  Any time I wanted to do that, I saved the XCF (if I had one) first, immediately saved the non-XCF next (using, like most people, "Save As" instead of "Save a Copy" like it should have been done), then quit GIMP.  End of story.  No changes to the open image between steps means no lost work. :)

-- Stratadrake
strata_ranger hotmail com
Numbers may not lie, but neither do they tell the whole truth.

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