Re: [Gimp-developer] [Gimp-web] Alexandre Prokoudine attacks on GIMP critics around the Web

[Ryan Stark <effluxion googlemail com>]

Alexandre, Mypaint has some new features in the development version which
takes the brush engine onto a much better level. Also, Mypaint has been
carefully designed for minimum hassle with workflow and UI. It is a very
simple but effective app. I'm a fan of that app but I'm not such a fan of
Krita for a few reasons including that it uses KDE libraries but it does
have many features that people want and it's feasible to user for painting.
Gimp should be usable as a painting program just like Photoshop is.

So many of Gimp's features seem unfinished. For example, look at the
guides. There are horizontal and vertical guides similar to Inkscape in
operation yet no diagonal guides which would be an obvious addition.
Applying any dynamics to a brush causes Gimp to go at an absolute snail's
pace. Why? And why on earth are all those hideous brushes, patterns etc
still included in Gimp when there are other better and free ones available?
This makes Gimp look very poor to any new user. The little sliders to
adjust values are not very good and text entry is horrible. You can't go
from from single window mode to multiple without your layout being messed
up. Having a UI like this without being able to save your windows layouts
is crazy. I've encountered many bugs and a few crashes in Gimp 2.10 which
never used to happen. For example there is some kind of problem where
certain actions with a mouse or pen causes docked tabs to constantly break
free without reason.

The problem is that some people may be prepared for a few problems, report
a few bugs etc but then it just gets tedious and they move to another app.
I believe many will do this with Gimp.

As for any contribution I could make, that would only be with using Gimp as
a painting app and the brushes because I've been through the brush engines
of just about every app out there. This is why I like Mypaint and the new
features. However, every time I try to use Gimp I end up in other programs,
including Clip Paint Studio which I run in Wine. I would much rather use
Gimp.

What are the solutions to these problems? I don't really know but i think
once some bad design decisions are made with an app it is very hard to fix
things. The developers or at least some developer who has a vision on how
to improve things is the most crucial component. I think the problem with a
lot of software is that the developers do not use the software extensively
or study how other programs do things.

On Tue, 8 Jan 2019 at 18:07, Niccolo Brogi <nkkollaw gmail com> wrote:

> @Ryan: it's like talking to a wall, don't waste your time.
>
> Also if you don't want abuse from Alexandre's huge ego.
>
> On Tue, Jan 8, 2019, 18:53 Alexandre Prokoudine <
> alexandre prokoudine gmail com> wrote:
>
> > On Tue, Jan 8, 2019 at 8:27 PM Ryan Stark wrote:
> > > I appreciate that the app is free open source and developers are
> > working for free but it seems they are cut off from most users.
> >
> > What would you suggest to do that we don't already do?
> >
> > > Virtually every feature has some kind of usability bad design
> >
> > And you are welcome to report issues and propose specific changes.
> >
> > > and Gimp is not as stable and reliable as it used to be
> >
> > Yes, the side effect of releasing a huge amount of changes you've seen
> > in 2.10 is less stability.
> >
> > > Most people are not going to bother going on mailing lists. There
> > doesn't seem to be any decent forum that everyone uses like there is for
> > Blender as in Blenderartists
> >
> > There is discuss.pixls.us. It's decent and everyone (but you?) uses
> > it. I also regularly answer questions on Twitter, Reddit, Facebook
> > etc. Places that noone uses :)
> >
> > > and there is no Gimp manual for the latest version.
> >
> > Yes. It's being worked on by a single person. Would you be interested
> > to help Julien?
> >
> > > Gimp appears to be a jack of all trades and master of none so there is
> > no passionate community.
> >
> > That is quite the opposite of what I see. Darn, I have to stop some
> > users from being too passionate :)
> >
> > > A sign of the problems is that on Linux we have Krita and Mypaint. If
> > Gimp's tools had been better for painting and manipulating things on the
> > canvas we would not have needed those apps.
> >
> > Krita is almost 20 years old. You might want revisiting your argument.
> >
> > MyPaint's development is, sadly, on the declining side. Personally, I
> > hope that Briend will merge all his changes from 2017-2018 and
> > stimulate a new, long overdue release.
> >
> > I don't think we as a community need just GIMP. I love what Martin et
> > al. did with MyPaint, there absolutely is enough room for applications
> > like MyPaint and Krita streamlined for particular demographics or use
> > cases.
> >
> > > Most people edit photos in a RAW editors now so these more
> > comprehensive 2D image editors should not be centred around just editing
> > photos.
> >
> > GIMP 2.10.x features MyPaint Brush tool, canvas rotating/flipping, and
> > other painting-specific things. Some features like layer group masks
> > are useful for a variety of use cases. Upcoming v2.10.10 is also
> > featuring smart colorization for painters and comic artists, as well
> > as a DDS plug-in for game designers.
> >
> > Alex
> --
> Niccolo.