Re: [Gimp-developer] Create New Layer Button

Come to think of it, I've changed my mind, and agree with making
transparent the default action. My reason is this:

When I was teaching Photoshop at University, I tried to think of a good
physical paradigm for explaining how layers work to people who always
worked on a single layer for fear of messing with the layers.

I wound up stealing some transparencies from an overhead projector and
using each transparency sheet to show everyone a real-world example to
demystify the rather abstract notion that flat images can be
separated/layered in Photoshop. That worked extremely well, and have since
used it to teach several friends and a few workmates the same concept. Now,
admittedly, I could have inserted a white bit of paper in there to
represent a white layer, but maybe that's a bit too much extra info, or
actually irrelevant, since it's obvious you can fill an entire layer with a
colour to achieve the same effect. In short, hiding the dialogue may aid
first-time user of layers, and prevent them from producing confusing layers
(like layers with no alpha-channel, for example). In fact, unless there is
some awesome reason for having new layers with no alpha channel, I'd
recommend against it. There is nothing more confusing than a "special"
layer that doesn't behave like every other layer, and there is no
indication at all why the eraser tool isn't working as it should, and
erasing to transparency. Photoshop solves this by making the bottom layer
by default with no alpha channel, and making every new layer transparent. I
think this is a decent way of handling it. What I really hate is that the
default for dragging new images into GIMP is creating new layers with no
alpha channel. Typically, if I'm dragging in files, I'm making a collage
where I will immediately erase the background out of each new layer in the
image. Invariably, I forget to manually add alpha channel to each layer
(It's a pain++ to have to do that). Mercifully, when you add a layer mask
to a new layer, it automatically adds an alpha channel, so again, it's not
that big of a deal since I've changed to non-destructive editing methods.
For users that don't like masks everywhere, it's going to be 10x more
frustrating, though. Again, we could just set the default to have an alpha
channel, and then people can remove it later if they really don't want it.
They could also just paint/fill over it, and accept that every layer has an
alpha channel as well.


On Fri, Apr 3, 2015 at 9:46 PM, C R <cajhne gmail com> wrote:

Personally, every time I want to mask out the current selection (sometimes
I make 3 or 4 in a row for stacked layer mode edits). This is probably
considered far beyond the scope of what a typical user does, though, so I'm
willing to personally sacrifice and rework my work flow if most people
think it's better to get rid of the layer dialogue (or hide it behind the
shift-click instead). A minor rework for me, as long as the options remain
the same in the dialogue. Admitedly, I found it a little frustrating when
coming directly from Photoshop to have the dialogue pop up every time, but
it's something I've come to appreciate when working with GIMP as a
non-destructive editor, which I never did much of in Photoshop. The fact
that it saves the last layer type, means that you can just click the
add-layer button, and hit enter to get the same kind of layer as you chose
before. Maybe setting the default to transparent would be enough for most
people to forgive the dialogue, and then you could still use it to make
sure users know that "transparent" isn't the only option for a layer. I am
not a fan of dragging and dropping a colour from the colour dialogue, as
it's far far slower than just hitting enter once to repeat the last layer
chosen. I make a lot of white layers (Amazon requires everything to have a
pure white background, for example) so in an editing workflow it can
require several hundred create white layer operations in a day. It may also
be noted that what looks "white" in the colour-picker may not be white; if
it's off even a little, you may not notice, but Amazon's picture scanning
tools certainly will, and then you may have to do a whole batch over again,
depending on how long ago you accidentally changed the colour to almost
white. ;) This has happened a few times, in the past, so I've personally
found the "white" new layer option quite handy. This is not something I
would have ever known about until this thread if it was hidden behind the
shift-click thing. I would not consider myself the typical GIMP user,
though, as I use GIMP for EVERYTHING. If it helps GIMP to be more useful
for the average user, I'm willing to change my workflow, however. I can
probably hotkey a fill-white action if I really need to.

On Fri, Apr 3, 2015 at 8:46 PM, Gez <listas ohweb com ar> wrote:

El vie, 03-04-2015 a las 20:36 +0100, C R escribió:
Not to be a pain, but if you have a selection already (that you want to
keep), clicking and dragging a colour fills the selection, which is not
same as making a new layer with foreground/background, or white. If I'm
outvoted on the issue though, I will simply change my workflow. The
for fill with fg and bg are useful. Also don't forget the "x" key, which
swaps foreground and background colours (I use this a lot when painting
masks). The "d" key changes the fg and bg colours to black and white (d
default) as well. This is the same in Photoshop.

That's a good point, but may I ask how often do you have to create a new
solid layer while keeping a selection?
I can think about a few cases, and not really critic ones since the
creation of the new solid doesn't depend on the selection.

Anyway, I don't think anyone is asking to remove the extra options from
the layer dialog. I think it's rather about making it less invasive.


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