Re: [Evolution] How to (not) move mail!?



Hi Pete

Thanks for the comprehensive and sensible follow-up.

As a comment to the Evo developers, the term "Expunge" is not one I've
come across before using Evo, also what it does and why it does it is
not something I've come across before using Evo.  So, it would go a long
way to alleviating the apparent insanity a new user finds when coming to
Evo if this term and function were _much_ better explained and
highlighted.  Sure, I could find reference to Expunge in the help files
(and via google and Evo web sights) but the references tended to give
directions on how to use it, not what it did and why it did it - as a
consequence I was loath to use such a powerful and potentially
disastrous the function (incidentally, I did manage to wipe some
material I would have preferred to keep while trying to work out what
was going on).

few comments below:

On Wed, 2007-08-29 at 07:53 -0400, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
On Tue, 2007-08-28 at 21:50 +1200, Morgan Read wrote:
On Thu, 2007-08-23 at 14:10 +1200, Morgan Read wrote: 
...
...
How do I go about succeeding to do what I want, which is to move the
deleted mail to the folder called XTrash so that it is nowhere else but
XTrash?

Delete and expunge. There's no other way. There is no IMAP operation
which means "physically remove this message", only "expunge this
folder". I know you're not using IMAP, but AFAIK Evo is designed as far
as possible to use the same semantics independantly of the underlying
mailbox architecture. Having "delete" mean different things depending on
whether you were using POP or IMAP (or Exchange) would be horrendous.

Note that this also affects the semantics of moving messages. Since IMAP
only allows copy+delete, Evo does this even on local folders where it
could in principle do a genuine move. This also has the side effect of
being easy to undo (see below).
Makes perfect sense, thanks (Developers - how about sticking this text
in the Help resource?)


Any ideas, comments?

On Tue, 2007-08-28 at 09:55 +0100, Pete Biggs wrote:
On Tue, 2007-08-28 at 10:53 +1200, Morgan Read wrote: 
On Fri, 2007-08-24 at 08:42 +0100, Pete Biggs wrote:
...
Well why don't you use an archival system rather than mucking around
with deleted mail?  I've never understood the mindset that leads to
"I've pressed delete, but I actually still want to keep it" - if that's
the case, don't delete it.
Because in every other computer user environment where there is a
"Trash", delete means "move to the Trash folder" - try highlighting a
icon on the gnome desktop and hit delete, where does it go - the Trash
folder.

Not on IMAP clients. Some (like Evo) just mark the message, others copy
OK

it to a physical Trash folder but leave a marked copy behind, which they
may or may not expunge automatically. Note that this latter method
wastes space at least temporarily, and in border cases can actually
prevent you from deleting messages to free up space (because your
mailbox is so full it can't make the copy -- I've seen this happen).

Marking without moving also has the neat consequence of being very cheap
to undo. You just unmark the message and it's magically back where it
came from without Evo having to maintain a separate piece of state
information for it. In fact if it's on IMAP you can even undelete it
from a different client on a different machine.

It was originally - but then lots of people grouched that they couldn't
find the trash folder so it got moved to be amongst the normal folders.
Also, I know you don't use IMAP, but there is a Trash folder for each
individual IMAP account, and that would be confusing if they were all in
'Search Folders'.
Hmm, more logical approach would be to allow "Search Folders" to be
nested within the other folder hierarchies...

I'd actually agree with this. I'd like to distribute search folders
among my folder hierarchy, though I can see it would be messy to
implement. (Note that, unlike IMAP folders, search folders only exist
within the local Evo instance.)


  So, I'm trying to moving the (un-hidden) deleted mail from
folders to an archive folder - except they're not moved; they're copied!

 - and then deleted - same effect as moving.  In fact, I can't think of
an instance within mail handling where a 'move' isn't implemented as
'copy and delete' - it's just so much safer.  What you are really
Ah, NO - and then NOT deleted!  They're still there!!!

Er, they *are* deleted, they're just not expunged. 'Deleted' in Evo-land
(following IMAP practice) means 'marked for future removal'.
OK - now I know (well actually I had worked it out;)

Thanks again,
M.
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Morgan Read
NEW ZEALAND
<mailto:mstuffATreadDOTorgDOTnz>

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