Re: [Evolution] Spamassassin, Junk/Not-Junk, Training

[Eric Lambart <ximian nomeaning net>]

On Mon, 2004-04-26 at 22:28 -0700, Lonnie Borntreger wrote:
> On Mon, 2004-04-26 at 21:27 -0700, Eric Lambart wrote:
> > Well, I just learned that this makes the Junk folder concept rather
> > useless to me.  I fired up my laptop this morning, which is still using
> > Evo 1.4.6, and every damned "junk" message of the last week appeared in
> > my INBOX, and I had to delete them all manually.  I'm not sure if
> > running 1.5.x on all machines would cause the local Junk vFolder on
> > every system to contain the same messages (how could it--aren't vFolders
> > local to the machine they're created on?), but I'm certain that it won't
> > have any effect on my Squirremail webmail system, which I also depend
> > on.
>
> Since it (like Trash) is a vFolder of things that are in IMAP folders,
> then - yes, it would have the same contents on all machines you connect
> from.  Assuming, of course, that they have "learned" the same rules.

I don't see how differing installations of the Evolution/Spamassassin
combo could *ever* end up learning the exact same set of rules.  But
maybe through some clever use of IMAP user flags, one installation
learns from the other?  If so, more kudos to the excellent Ximian team.
I'm curious how this would work for POP3 users, though (no "user flags",
right?).

> No, it wouldn't affect Squirrelmail.  For that, you need something
> server-side anyway.

Obviously my message confused the hell out of both you and NotZed.  I'm
not quite sure what you understood about "affecting Squirrelmail", but
all I meant was that it is not acceptable to me to have messages which
are removed from my Inbox by Evolution, show up when viewing my Inbox on
another mail system.  Granted, it seems reasonable to me that any IMAP
server-client combo should support user flags, and if that is the key, I
may not have a problem at all.  I should point out that I haven't even
logged into Squirrelmail since testing Evolution 1.5.7.

> Personally I LIKE the virtual trash - and the whole vFolder concept.

I've not read *every* single messages on this list since subscribing in
Aug '01, but I do believe you're the second person (after Janne Morén)
not associated with Ximian I've EVER seen indicating happiness with the
vTrash concept.  Granted, only the people who are *unhappy* with it
would be likely to be vociferous about it, but there are quite a few of
us (and many duplicate wishlist bugs filed).  It's those of us who can't
stand it who started complaining about it nearly three years ago, and we
still don't have the option that was promised "eventually" in October
2001 (see end of this message).  "Draft" and "Sent" folders are a user
option.  I want everyone to be happy--so give us an analogous
per-account option on "Trash" and you'll be happier too--not having to
read anymore complaints about vTrash.  =)

I fully support your right to have and use vTrash.  But surely you don't
think the rest of us should be happy *just* because you are...

> The first thing I do when using Squirrelmail or Mozilla, is to tell it
> to NOT move/copy the email to a Trash folder when I mark it for
> deletion.

It's nice that they have the option though, isn't it?

> The fact that IMAP keeps the deleted mail until I expunge
> makes that a complete waste of resources as far as I'm concerned.  And I
> can't tell you how many times I, or some other admin, has had to yell at
> people who's trash folder was taking up 100M of space (or made their
> account unable to receive email since they were at their quota) just
> because they never checked it.

That's what quotas (and BOFHs) are for--to teach people lessons about
managing their limited resources.  ;)  It also doesn't seem to me like
it would be difficult to write a cron script that deletes the oldest
messages from the Trash folder when that folder exceeds a certain size.
Even nicer would be a client-side option, a la Outlook (and, I think,
Eudora, and probably others...).
 
>   Even more annoying are clients like
> Kmail that copy the deleted emails to a local trash folder

Agreed.  That would bug the hell out of me.

Eric

> From deep within the crypts of the archive comes this ancient manuscript:

            From: 
Dan Winship <danw
at ximian dot com>
              To: 
Zot O'Connor <zot
at zotconsulting
dot com>
              Cc: 
Ed Wilts <ewilts
at ewilts dot
org>, Evolution
List
<evolution ximian com>
         Subject: 
Re: [Evolution]
IMAP Trash folder?
            Date: 
24 Oct 2001
10:04:13 -0400
(07:04 PDT)
          Mailer: 
Evolution/0.16.99
(Preview Release)


You will eventually be able to do trash the "normal" way.

http://bugzilla.ximian.com/show_bug.cgi?id=6061
-- 
This message was created in a Microsoft-free computing environment.