RE: [Evolution] evolution folder layout (Off-topic)

["Jeffrey P. Lanza" <jpl alumni unh edu>]

On Sat, 15 Apr 2000, Paul Bleisch wrote:

> So evolution would pop up a dialog and say what?  "Sorry, that folder
> name is illegal for some reason.  Please try again."  

That's what happens in a file manager, isn't it?

> And the user (after all, it is the user that matters right?) would do
> what?  Type in something again?

Yeah, some users would type the same thing again...  :)

> Or the user could pop up a help window and see that Evolution requires
> folder names to match the filesystem convention. Of course then the
> user would have to go find the filenaming convention somewhere to see
> what that means (i.e. how is case sensitivity handled in the
> Windows/DOS filesystems?).

  This is the point at which the help dialog will have to be customized
for each possible filesystem.  That is, the dialog will have to know what
filesystem you use so that it can spit up the right convention.  The
alternative to this is to use the naming map that was suggested earlier,
but then you'd have to do *that* for each possible filesystem.  
  I don't know about you, but if I'm going to use a case statement to
switch on the OS/filesystem type, I'd rather have it choosing different
text blurbs to print than have it chose an entirely different
mapping/encoding scheme for each supported OS.

> At a minimum the folder naming convention has to be well defined
> *within* Evolution -- even if you let the system calls arbitrate the
> convention, it still has to be documented.

  I agree that the convention currently in use has to be documented within
the program.  Now, I know that the system call for creating a file will
blow up if you give it an illegal filename, but I'm not sure if there's
another system call that can be used to get a blurb about the proper
convention for your OS.  But as I've stated above, I think that it's
easier to plug in some help text than it is to plug in a new mapping
scheme.

> It is simpler because the user doesn't have to worry about characters.
> I *think* it is better because it seems to handle internationalization 
> more robustly -- how well do filesystems (and system calls) handle
> unicode? [this is a question, i don't know the answer]  It *is* well 
> established if you think of the folder names as labels.  Imagine if the 
> label of a UI widget had to follow some specific convention like 
> filesystem naming or C token naming -- everything would look like
> consultants did the UI.

I've done a lot of coding work in SNMP and the labels there *do* have to
follow a convention.  Now I'm not suggesting that we bring that into
Evolution, but you should acknowledge that formatting conventions can make
things easier to read and to work on.

> So (just to be clear) can I use a filename like "Linux/OpenGL"? (minus 
> the quotes)?  Or "plib:dev" (again minus the quotes)?  If I put
> quotes in the folder name, what happens?  (i.e. "Cool" Stuff).  Are
> dollar signs legal in filesystems?  I'd hate to have to give up
> my "Dumb$hit$ folder. Can you answer these questions without knowing 
> what filesystem type I am storing my folders on?  

In Linux, you can't use "Linux/OpenGL" because it looks like a directory
and then a file, you can use "plib:dev", you can't use "Dumb$hit$" because
the shell thinks you're making a shell variable substitution (for hit),
and I'm not sure about "Cool" Stuff.  But I think the question is, do you
really need to have these filenames?  Why not "Linux-OpenGL", "plib-dev",
"_Cool_ Stuff", or "DumbShits"?  Do you really need to insist upon these
filenames if it means that some extra filename mapping code has to be
introduced?  Keep in mind that any such code is going to reduce the speed
of the program while it re-maps your filename and runs out to memory and or
the disk to check that it hasn't already used that mapping.

> If they are illegal, what would I see (a dialog, help, etc..) Unless 
> there is some code in Evolution to verify the name of the folder to 
> *some* standard it is nearly impossible to give *useful* feedback to 
> the user about their mistake.

I think you should get a pop up box which says something like: "The
following characters are not allowed: ?, *, /, etc...."

> These are things I use already in my current mailer/organizer and I
> would prefer (as others would too I would think) that my mailer/organizer
> not tell me how to organize my data for me, I just want it to help
> me do it.

  I've made the same argument for the resend command, so perhaps we should
add that mapping table just to make the program more user friendly.  I
don't know what the best solution to this is,
  One last comment on the folder naming conventions...  Are we even going
to need them?  My understanding of how Evolution will handle mail folders
is that all messages are going to be indexed as they come in and that
folders will actually just be the results of queries against the index.
If this is the case, will we really need to create folders?

-Jeffrey