Re: Some points about IM integration

[Marguerite Su <i marguerite su>]

XOXO, Vuntz,

at first I want to declare a big progress Weng and Takao made in the
other thread.

IBUS won't be compulsory. it will be optional. distribution can customize it.

it's enough for me.

actually I started my thread because I thought IBus will be compulsory
for my openSUSE distro who is planning to rely on Fcitx gradually.

now I got my answer.

then this thread will turn to be a developers' talk about how to make
it better in tech details. in which field I have no idea to express
and no knowledge thus no word to say.

so it's my time to say, Goodbye.

(of course as a Foss distro maintainer, I'll watch this.)

On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 5:45 PM, Vincent Untz <vuntz gnome org> wrote:
> Marguerite,
>
> (First, no need to cc me, I'm obviously subscribed to desktop-devel-list
> :-))
>
> Le mardi 15 mai 2012, à 16:40 +0800, Marguerite Su a écrit :
>> On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 7:27 AM, Owen Taylor <otaylor redhat com> wrote:
>> > In general, choice of input method framework is not a goal in itself.
>> > If we choose a single input method framework to integrate with GNOME -
>> > that doesn't make GNOME like proprietary software from Apple and Microsoft,
>> > because GNOME will still be 100% Free Software, and will still be developed
>> > in the open by the GNOME community.
>> >
>> > GNOME doesn't want to work well just for tweakers and enthusiasts - it's
>> > very important to the project that GNOME works well for all users without
>> > tweaking. We want to give the choice of using Free Software to
>> > everybody - this is a much more fundamental form of choice than giving a small
>> > group of users the ability to swap out a different input method framework
>> > underneath GNOME.
>> >
>>
>> no offense, but if Chinese or CJK Community is "a small group"(I think
>> I've already be clear about what CJK users are doing today. they'are
>> the nowadays tweakers you called. why? because you didn't ship what
>> they want. you know, IM is the most famous workaround in i18n world),
>> GNOME Asia can be shutdown.
>>
>> so is Chinese or CJK Community "a small group" or "second class"? say
>> that in public in Hong Kong.
>
> I feel you misunderstood what Owen wrote. My understanding is that when
> Owen is talking about a small group here, it would only be a small group
> because our goal is to have GNOME work well by default for most people,
> including most users of the CJK community. If we manage to do that, then
> only a small number of people would need to do some changes (like using
> a different input method framework).
>
> Now, there's obviously the question of whether this goal is achievable:
> can we cover the needs of most users (including most users of the CJK
> community) with one input method framework? Some people in this thread
> seems to think it's possible, while others believe it's not. I can't
> answer this as I've no background on input methods in general.
>
> It would surely help to have some simple wiki page summarizing the
> current state of ibus and fctix, both as frameworks in general as well
> as for the availability and state of their plugins. People have been
> trying to tell the pros and cons of both in various mails, but I don't
> think anybody really managed to get a global view because of the number
> of mails.
>

Vuntz, I have a detailed blog about this in tech details I know.

so maybe I can post it on our EN WIKI or lizards.opensuse.org (BTW,
I'm a Member!)

they're just some basic points of IM. it won't help much on IM development.

but it'll be pretty much easy for maintainers to catch up.

(like I said, after James Su left SuSE, no one can understand his work any more)

> [...]
>
>> > GNOME isn't just a set of parts that a Linux distributor takes and uses
>> > to create a working system - we also take responsibility for creating
>> > a fully working system. This means deciding how GNOME interacts with
>> > system components like sound and networking and printing and when necessary
>> > enhancing those components to provide the right experience to the user.
>>
>> yes and no. your will is good and respectful.
>>
>> but have you ever discussed it with downstream distributions?
>>
>> I cc-ed openSUSE GNOME Community leader, Vincent, to see what he will
>> think on this.
>
> Hrm, I'm not sure what you expect me to say here :-) This is the way
> GNOME has been working for a while. For instance, this is why GNOME has
> tight integration with NetworkManager and PulseAudio. Of course, this
> raises challenges for integrators downstream (as well as for some
> advanced users) and I'm very well aware of this. But we feel (where "we"
> = GNOME) it helps us build a better user experience.
>

I at first thought GNOME is planning to grab free options from users
and distros.

like we openSUSE choose fcitx as default IM, but we can do nothing on
IBUS then. then we won't choose fcitx any more. because we don't like
to act fool. the we have no freedom to choose our distros default IM.

but apparently not.

I got promise from Takao.

so Vincent, maybe you can say, "Congrats"? XD.

Marguerite

> Cheers,
>
> Vincent
>
> --
> Les gens heureux ne sont pas pressés.
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