Re: 3.6 Feature: IBus/XKB integration

[Marguerite Su <i marguerite su>]

On Mon, May 14, 2012 at 12:19 AM, Frederic Peters <fpeters gnome org> wrote:
> Tomas Frydrych wrote:
>
>> Rather a long discussion over IBus, but it seems to more or less boil
>> down to two voices and this:
>>
>> Gnome developers: we want tighter IM integration and simpler UI in the
>> name of better UX, and are looking at IBus as the underlying technology,
>>
>> Users: IBus has poor support for CJK input and a history of not
>> addressing these problems.
>
> You may be a bit harsh on IBus, but I believe your characterisation of the
> GNOME developers view point is quite correct, we do want input methods
> to be integrated, we do believe this will lead to a better user
> experience, and certainly this belief doesn't come out of thin air but
> from discussions with actual CJK users.
>

then I'm really afraid to say what you believe needs to be modified. trust me.

many users and developers here and in real world apparently do not
think of IBus that way.

because they're using it on a daily and productive basis.

and even there's a world famous distribution is about to drop ibus as
the default IM.

the agreement we openSUSE CJK made is to temporary keep it from the
coming 12.2, then in 12.3 , when weng has done fcitx-anthy and
fcitx-canna. or if anytime mozc(FOSS but close developed by Google
Japan staff) is accepted as real FOSS, we will drop IBus immediately.

IBus has already been in backport state in some Distros.

and in Debian, it does not even be the choice ever. (see below)

> This feature is called "IBus/XKB integration" but this is technospeak,
> what it is really about is to get CJK input methods out of their
> second-class zone, to bring their integration on the same level as the
> current XKB support.
>

oh that sounds awesome!

weng can help you on this, because it's what he already done. you have
fcitx-m17n

and fcitx-keyboard

> It happened discussions were engaged with IBus developers, I don't
> know the history behind this; this thread questions that technical
> choice, there are important voices from actual CJK users that should
> not be ignored.
>
> The voices of graphic designers are not ignored when they say it's
> important to be able to configure the meanings of the buttons of their
> Wacom tablet, but that happens because they are already close to the
> development of GNOME, while we notoriously lack developers from Asia
> (hopefully the efforts of GNOME.asia will bear fruits here).
>

yes, really sad story. but I have to encourage you on this point.

there're more GNOME developers in CJK area than you think. Fedora and
Ubuntu are gnome-ed. they're the largest two. they'll say welcome and
thank you in June.

Xu in this list will be there. you two can shake hands. he may buy you
a bear. XD.

> But short of that actual experience, what can be done? Just like it
> happens for other aspects of our development, did we gather relevant
> art from other platforms? Would it be useful?
>
> https://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/Design/Guidelines/SystemStatus/InputLanguage
> doesn't have any of this, perhaps it's elsewhere on the wiki but I
> didn't find it.
>
> I found the videos posted by Justin Wong very instructing, are there
> moments where designers, developers, CJK users could meet to plan
> things ahead, GNOME.asia happens next month but I don't think enough
> of the core developers and designers are going there, but later on
> there is GUADEC, will we have CJK users there?
>

hi, I think you could invite weng...he is the key person, that when to
talk IM, no one can work around. without him, any IM talk will die in
air. because he controls the largest user group....in both Chinese
community and IM community. now even Korean users know him...and he'd
be happy to.

> But then waiting for GUADEC is perhaps too much, that would mean we
> wouldn't get that feature for 3.6, but perhaps it's worth to wait to
> make sure the target audience, CJK users, have enough occasion to
> bring their feedback and to participate in the actual design.
>
> Should we step back for now? And how will we then go ahead?

in my opinion, yes, because you're wasting time to polish something
left by users for years.

Xu just told me, in Debian, the only possible IM for CJK users, no
matter what OS ships, was fcitx since 2006.

so it might not a good ieaa to replace it by IBus. because Debian is pure GNOME.

but you may also  listen to someone who act as PM in GNOME community.
>
>
>
>        Fred
> _______________________________________________
> desktop-devel-list mailing list
> desktop-devel-list gnome org
> http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list

anyway I and CJK community are glad to see we're approaching an agreement.

thanks for your kindness.

with all my heart.

you guys do rock and are making the world a better place.

Marguerite