Re: Proposed module: tracker

[Emmanuele Bassi <ebassi gmail com>]

hi Jamie;

no need to Cc: me - I'm on the list.

On Mon, 2007-01-08 at 19:13 +0000, Jamie McCracken wrote:
> Emmanuele Bassi wrote:
> > On Mon, 2007-01-08 at 19:33 +0100, Vincent Untz wrote:
> >> Information about tracker:
> >> http://www.gnome.org/projects/tracker/
> > 
> > okay, I'll bite.
> > 
> > +++
> 
> ouch !
> 
> > 
> > I have strong objections to the inclusion of tracker into GNOME 2.18.
> > 
> > Actually, I have one strong objection, that is: what's proposed for
> > inclusion and where?
> 
> glad to see thats your only *strong* objection - tracker and t-s-t are 
> proposed as desktop modules

with, obviously, tracker-indexer and tracker-db coming along.

>    If it's tracker-search-tool (the UI), I'd say that
> > for what tracker *does* right now, there's no difference between tracker
> > and gnome-search-tool in gnome-utils. 
> 
> well t-s-t is fast and instant and provides search snippets. It also 
> allows search by object (Documents, Images, Music etc).

correct me if I'm wrong, but it's "fast and instant" after a run of the
indexer, so is as fast as the indexer.  gnome-search-tool (also) uses
locate and the locate database, so it's fast as that.  and since both
tracker and gnome-search-tool, *right now*, can search only files, the
feature set is quite similar.

ergo, introducing tracker-search-tool would make gnome-search-tool
obsolete.  am I wrong?

>   If what's proposed for inclusion
> > is tracker-the-indexer, then until we have a use for the indexer in more
> > than one application, I'd wait for its inclusion; same goes for
> > tracker-the-database.
> 
> um well Nautilus and Deskbar both have tracker support. So that makes 3 
> apps (including t-s-t)

nautilus and deskbar-applet dlopen tracker (and beagle) if found, so
it's not really a full support.

>    I'd also like to see a tracker-library to access
> > the data without having to implement the D-Bus calls into each and every
> > application.
> 
> we have a c based libtracker but most of the apps that use tracker are 
> python based and they prefer the native dbus but apps can choose between 
> both

libtracker is a thin, low-level layer against d-bus; I was looking for a
more high-level library for people not using a high level language with
a native d-bus binding - or people who want to use GObject and the main
loop provided by GLib.

> > 
> > I'd also like for tracker to become less of a moving target: in the past
> > six months tracker changed the database backend twice (at least), API,
> > UI; 
> 
> UI has not changed at all
> 
> its proposed for Desktop not platform so moving API should not be an issue

the fact that libraries in the desktop release *may* break the API/ABI
rules is not a "free for all" situation: even libraries in the desktop
release should limit the API/ABI breakage - especially if they plan to
be used by more than one application.

> I have only proposed it now as im confident tracker wont need any more 
> *major* overhauls.

> and it still indexes just plain text files, images and audio files,
> > with all the interesting stuff (emails, contacts, im conversations,
> > bookmarks, etc.) marked as TODO.
> 
> emails is 95% done as of today and we should have a release for that in 
> a week or two
> 
> chat logs are on their way.

and are you sure that proposing tracker at this point in time is the
wisest approach?  having it into GNOME SVN and spreading its usage is
far more important than a "blessing"; since tracker is still growing
this fast it doesn't really need publicity, and it won't benefit of
being into the desktop release, as that adds constraints that surely
will soon become too tight.

> But as t-s-t is proposed as a replacement for g-s-t that should not 
> matter (the latter being files based also)

if tracker is to obsolete gnome-search-tool, then it should offer at
least more features, or be a cleaner approach; otherwise, I'm following
the most conservative path, here.

> > 
> > Above all, anyway, I'd like to be able to *not* use "tracker" as a catch
> > all for indexer, database, search UI and API.
> 
> well we need something if we want to compete with Vista and OS/X.

this is not an excuse for rushing stuff out of the door before it's
ready and proven technology; before it allows me - as application
developer - to use it with the current (and future) platform
architecture; and, most of all, while it's still a moving target.  On
the contrary, having competitors should make us work in the direction
not only of more features, but in the direction of stability and
reliability.

+++

so, my objection stands; it's a bit less strong, because all in all I
believe tracker can be a good addition to the desktop release - but not
in this cycle.

ciao,
 Emmanuele.

-- 
Emmanuele Bassi,  E: ebassi gmail com
W: http://www.emmanuelebassi.net
B: http://log.emmanuelebassi.net