Re: 2.3 Proposed Features

> > Don't get me wrong. I'm quite happy about the current progress. I'm just a
> > little bit unhappy about what I saw when ogalaxy showed me - some might it
> > call - minor UI issues.
> Teeny, tiny bugs, dude. In the grand scheme of things, they mean essentially
> squat. Sorry, but they're just not significant enough to even call them "UI
> issues"

Hello Jeff,

Sorry for replying to you in private since I'm not subscribed to the ML anymore. I have read your reply to Christian and I wonder about your answer which doesn't sound really wise. Did you write him this type of answer because I 'Ali Akcaagac' made this ui review or are you replying to him because you don't see the underlaying problem of the situation ?

First of all. The these problems are not to understimate and I would appreciate if you wouldn't play them down as if they are in no ways needed to be mentioned.

The Toolbar issues is not just an Esthetical aspect. We are talking about CODE here. A lot of sourcecode to summarize it up because people are using various ways of coding their applications. As Havoc Pennington correctly replied in the initial thread the BonoboWindow Toolbar and the GnomeUI Toolbar are being REMOVED and replaced with the LibEGG Toolbar. Can you imagine how much code it requires to change all applications existing (not the 80 modules inside the cvs repository which you download and compile each day). There are hundrets of GNOME applications being written these days which all of them inherit different code (even broken ones).

What you call teeny tiny now will become a huge mess as soon as above mentioned removal situation happens. You need good coding knowledge to understand the situation as a whole and if you don't belive me then please let me encourage you to ask Havoc how much work this all is. That's the reason why it makes sense to get the changes of LibEGG as soon as even possible into GTK+. As early these changes happen as early we make sure that coders won't adapt old code for their applications.

Please don't confuse above lines with the Esthetical aspects of the Button-Layout, Notebook-Layout that I also reviewed in the writings. They can easily be fixed more or less. Now I assume you still belive it's not important after all so I make a proposal.

Are you willing to help to fix these issues that you call teeny tiny ?
I really like to see how you gonna convince the developers to fix these issues.
I also like to see how you play the prayer and tell everyone who is new in coding to not use the Toolbars which get removed soon. And I really like to see how teeny tiny it will become when the Toolbar codes are being removed and replaced with LibEGG.

So please don't be so shortsighted. These issues are STILL issues regardless what you think at the end. But explaining the deeper issues of that and look about the whole of the GNOME project requires a deeper understanding of it and I think you don't have them. This should be no offense I only assume this because of the way you replied and played the situation down. In case you don't belive me please contact a capable programmer of your choice and ask.

You like a perfect GNOME, so do I, so do others too but to reach this we shouldn't play down things because we have some personal 'issues' which is only a personal nature and in no way related to GNOME. By replying the way you did and playing issues down you only hurt the project that you love much. I recall you writing 'where we put all out blood in'.

You replied 'file a bug' in various replies where this issue came up with. So I ask you to make the first step. Take 5-6 applications of your choice and sent in the patches. I like to see how EASY it is.

Once again, no offense. I only liked to reply to you and will CC this message to Christian. What I was trying is to get people to become a sense for these things. Esthetical aspects are as important as code and things should go simultaneously. We are talking about GNOME which is meant to become a Corporate Desktop for business people and homeusers and we shouldn't talk about it like a hackers toy. My appologizes if you think I'm mistaken in this situation.

Ali Akcaagac
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