Re: KDE and Gnome

[Marcin Antczak <marcin antczak e-dev pl>]

W liście z śro, 27-08-2003, godz. 22:48, Telsa Gwynne pisze: 
> On Wed, Aug 27, 2003 at 10:03:49PM +0200 or thereabouts, Marcin Antczak wrote:
> > W li??cie z ??ro, 27-08-2003, godz. 19:20, Mike Newman pisze: 
> > > According to Bugzilla, you have filed 10 bugs - all between 23rd and
> > > 27th August 2003. Five of these are already resolved duplicates, three
> > > need more information and two remain unconfirmed. Pretty damn good turn
> > > around by the Bug Squad there I think.
> > 
> > Well sorry but remaining bugs was in my out box so they will go in a
> > while. I will try to fill bugzilla report for next bugs in my free time.
> 
> I don't quite follow here. Are you using the email interface to
> Bugzilla? Most people use the web interface or go through bug-buddy.

Reports go thru sendmail - right?

I can't send bug reports directly from my second machine where I created
11 bug reports.

So I will have to write them and send later.

> 
> > I don't get your sarcasm about resolved duplicates - I just don't have
> > powerfull enough machine to compile fresh cvs gnome every day so it is
> > natural that user reports bugs already resolved.
> 
> You're missing his point. It is good practice to search Bugzilla
> before submitting a bug, in case it has been submitted already.
> The infamous bug http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=94625
> is a case in point.

I think that in bug-buddy should be kind of search engine built in.

And where is a direct link or maybe button in bug-buddy to automatically
open epiphany with adequate web-page (well I assume that mime-types will
be fixed before 2.4 release :) )?

Why do you think that everyone who will have application crash and who
will see bug-buddy automatically opened after this crash will know that
there is such database?

>  That page takes a while to load and shows how
> _many_ people were involved in sorting out hundreds of duplicates
> into one bug. I (with some help, I note!) once reduced some
> thousand-plus (truly) bugs to a group of 20 or so, one of which
> had over _five hundred_ duplicates. 
> 
> It took me three days of doing _nothing_ but sorting that product
> to do that. Full-time (no, I am not paid to work on Gnome either).

Maybe you just should improve reporting system?

Redesign forms, do not use "opened questions", generate bug reports in
xml format easy to parse and transform.

Save your time yourself. Do not improve users just improve tools you
give them. Everybody will be happy.

> Because hundreds of people had considered it too much effort to
> spend five minutes (assuming a crappy connection and no familiarity
> with the bug tracker interface: it can be much faster) checking
> for duplicates, I spent three very long days on it.

Do you think that anyone with dialup connection could spend his time
searching for duplicates?

Do you think that this bugtracking system is well promoted to users?

I don't think so.

> Btw, a resolution of "duplicate" means that someone has already submitted
> the bug, not that someone has duplicated the bug on a recent build.
> I think there is some confusion in your post about that.
> 
> > Well.. I really don't want to start a flame war or something... I just
> > must say that Gnome 2.4 rc1 is just annoying.
> 
> "xxx is just annoying" with no simple clear analysis of what makes
> you feel that way is an excellent way to start a flame war.

I don't want to go this way. I just said so and reported these "annoying
things" as bugs that's all. EOT

> > User interface is a mess, but I'll try to compile new cvs version and
> > see what's going on. I hope it will be better.
> 
> You don't need to compile the CVS version. You do need to search
> Bugzilla before reporting a bug. Bug-buddy will actually show you
> a list of the "top ten most reported bugs", to try to prevent
> endless duplicates. It's a shame that people just click straight
> on through it.

I said earlier what I think about bug-buddy.

> 
> > I don't work as beta tester so in a _free_ time I will report this bug.
> > BTW bug-buddy in my opinion is annoying too - why I can't report more
> > than one bug at once? It rebuilds product list each time and it takes
> > about a minute.... wrrr.
> 
> Because if you report a bug like this:
> 
>   "gnome-panel does this, which is wrong. epiphany does this, which
>   is broken. galeon does this, which is silly. konqueror does this,
>   which is odd. xchat does this, which is broken."
> 
> ..someone has to go through and split that into five different
> bugs, assign four of them to the correct products, components,
> versions and releases of Gnome bugzilla, and then work out what
> to do with the Konqueror bug which should go to KDE. That's a
> lot of work, particularly because Bugzilla is not built to 
> expect bugs to be split up. Essentially, they'd have to re-enter
> each bug for you, add you to the cc list, and put up with getting
> notified on every change to a bug that is yours, not theirs.
> Rebuilding the product list each time, I am not sure about.

Well... sorry I had bug-buddy 2.2.0 - now I upgraded to 2.3.x and I see
it has a list "built in". I will try how it works... 

And I have a little question because I see section in bug-buddy - send
"feature request" - do you really think that sending feature requests
should be in _bug_ zilla?

Is there any public plan showing what are targets in development?

For example are there any web pages with collected ideas and defined
requirements how for example: nautilus multiroot tree should look like?

I see a lot of annoying regressions in Gnome and I would like to know
who and why decided for example that there is one gnome-panel type right
now and I can't define it's size (not height just width...), why
nautilus-cd-burnes has so "user friendly" and "intuitive" ;-) interface
and in what direction will go it's development etc. etc.?

Is there any good documented "roadmap" for Gnome desktop development?
Any clearly defined targets to achieve?

How do Gnome community manage such things?

> > And first I'll try why I have such scrappy sounds in my speakers
> > probably gstreamer is broken I want to investigate first.
> 
> Scrappy sounds in the speakers on my machine were almost invariably
> a sound driver or kernel problem. 

Red Hat rawhide kernel + alsa libs and kernel module from freshrpms... I
thought that it should be well tested.


-- 
Marcin Antczak <marcin antczak e-dev pl>
e-dev studio - http://www.e-dev.pl