Re: _NET_WM_[GET_|TAKE_|REQUEST_]FOCUS & urgency

[Rob Adams <readams readams net>]

> perhaps none.  Still, it is interesting to note that for quite some
> time, only metacity and windows users complain about gaim's creation
> of new windows. 

Metacity and windows users are your only users, to a first
approximation.

> gaim currently supports urgency from the ICCCM spec.  you all choose
> not to implement that for some inexplicable reason (it *seems* to
> boil down to one or two developers reading that spec in a way no one
> who has implemented it reads it).  But I address this in my bulleted
> points.  Did you read them?

I read them; They are mostly misinformed, and seem to demonstrate a lack
of understanding of the specification.

Urgency is a separate matter, and there's really nothing preventing it
being implemented other than a sane idea of what it should do.

We would like a better way of notifying users about things like this.
Currently the best thing we have is the notification area, so, like I
said, perhaps we should have a notification area icon that watches for
these things.

> I *know* from interacting with warren that this will result in many
> many bug reports about loosing windows, not seeing password prompts,
> new messages, so on.  I am perfectly willing to continue my age old
> policy of saying "metacity is broken."  I've been saying that for
> pretty much all of metacity's existence, it wouldn't hurt me or gaim
> to continue doing so.  I thought that it would be appropriate though,
> since you all *have* looked at this issue, to let you know that your
> solution is less than optimal, and really won't change our responce
> to this sort of bug.

I'm not sure what you mean when you say "metacity is broken".  But you
obviously have gotten it into your head that we're out to get you.

> again, demonstratably false.  For example, see redhat bugs 157270 and
> 157271.  These bugs are going to stay around for quite some time if
> gaim "need not do anything." And others will be marked duplicate of
> them.  I predict there will be quite a few marked duplicate, do you
> disagree?

This statement demonstrates a complete lack of understanding of what
DEMANDS_ATTENTION is.  DEMANDS_ATTENTION is a hint set by the window
manager when it has declined to focus a newly mapped window.  It's unset
by the window manager when that window received focus.  That's it.
There is 100% no reason why gaim or any other application will need to
do anything remotely related to it.

What you seem to be worried about is that there's not enough in the
GNOME desktop to alert the user to the presence of windows with
DEMANDS_ATTENTION set.  I implemented the current solution (the bold
text) was implemented as a stopgap measure.  What I originally wanted to
do was blinking the tasklist entry but it turns out to be impossible to
do that in gtk+ in a way that works with all themes.  We would very much
welcome your input on ways to improve this support in the tasklist, or
possibly using a notification area icon or something similar.

Also, no one has "refused" to imple