Re: Initial window placement

["Valeriy E. Ushakov" <uwe ptc spbu ru>]

On Mon, Aug 13, 2001 at 14:19:56 -0500, Sasha_Vasko osca state mo us wrote:

> > | when calculating reference point at the time of initial placement -
> > | initial window's size should be taken into consideration, as if it
> > | was the frame for this window.
> >
> > Well to me this "clarification" seems even more confusing than the
> > original.
> >
> > ICCCM says that window is "SHIFTED to make room for the window manager
> > frame".  I definitely read this as that the window must not be resized
> > and the frame is added around the window.
> >
> > While ICCCM distinguishes window refpoint vs frame refpoint, the
> > "clarification" speaks about some unqualified "reference point" and
> > lumps both window size and frame size in one phrase in a very
> > confusing manner.  So why this "clarification" is necessary in the
> > first place?
> 
> Well, ICCCM description of all that is garbadge and over years
> generated nothing but confusion.
> 
> While reading the entire paragraph you'll find out exactly what
> "reference point" specs are talking about, how it should be
> calculated and how it should be applied. Clear formulas. No
> confusion of frame/client ref points. Just copy and paste it in your
> code - and you are done.

[Come on.  It's really tempting to return that "garbage" argument, but
it will be obviously unproductive.]

If you think that ICCCM wording is bad and confusing, than it doesn't
help to switch to a different terminology to clarify it without
providing any reference points (pun intended).  Whether you like it or
not, but ICCCM talks about frame/client ref points, so denial will
just do no good.  If that language is confusing than take trouble to
explain in the text why it's confusing, what new language you propose
and how they are related to each other.

SY, Uwe
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