Re: Collating proposed changes to 1.9e

[Jeff Raven <jraven psu edu>]

On Thu, Jun 29, 2000 at 07:30:32PM +0100, Michael ROGERS wrote:
> >I sat down and looked over the session management spec, and it seems
> >that it only concerns itself with the window manager preserving session
> >information across session boundaries. So if you close an app before
> >ending the session, the window manager is not expected to save any state
> >information about that client. (Can anyone confirm this?)
> >
> >Which would mean that users would need to set 'on top' _every_ _time_
> >they run some programs, even if they use a session manager. Make a user
> >run through that window-manager-specific nonsense every time they run
> >that app, and shortly very few of them will agree that they can 'easily
> >request' it.
> 
> The fact that the session management spec doesn't require a feature doesn't
> mean a wm can't provide that feature! For example, E lets you set properties 
> such as "stays on top" for all windows of a particular class, eg all xterms.
> If you open a new xterm it will automatically stay on top. You can also set
> properties for individual windows, which will be lost when you close that
> window. This is just as flexible and convenient as per-client configuration, 
> but it offers consistency (even with legacy apps).
> 

The point is not that one can add window-manager-specific functionality
to make things bearable. The spec should provide a common standard for
what a window manager should provide to be a useable part of a desktop.
If that sort of functionality is needed to make an 'only though the
window manager' form of 'on top' practical, then it should be part of
the wm spec. Frankly, I think an 'on top' hint is both a simpler and
better solution.

Besides, it doesn't do anything near what an 'on top' hint would do,
precisely because it is an all-or-nothing option (or, as you note,
must be set by hand every time the app is run). An 'on top' hint would,
for instance, allow the user to specify that the window should be on
top via a command line option or in an app's configuration menus.

Sigh. This discussion is going nowhere fast. I'm sure all the window
manager programmers here have a good grasp of the options and issues
involved. In the end this will simply come down to whether the people
behind the desktop libraries want a programmatic 'on top' option. The
KDE folks, at least in their draft implementation, seemed to be in
favor of it. Do they still feel that way, and does whoever is on the
GNOME library side of things have an opinion?

Jeff Raven