Re: Decorations (again)

[Michael ROGERS <M Rogers cs ucl ac uk>]

>> Having said that, I can see your point that "stay
>> on top" (for normal windows) and "stuck to glass" (for docks, etc) have
>> slightly different meanings. 
>
>This bothers me.  I'm not sure what stuck-to-glass means in the case of a
>dock.  Where the dock gets stacked is a WM preference, and I would expect
>most WMs to ignore the stuck-to-glass hint set on a Dock window.

Well, it's a user preference if the dock isn't implemented by the WM (ie the
Gnome panel). Personally I would have mine set to "stay on top". But in any
case we don't need to worry about it in the spec.

>If we did that, then undecorated windows couldn't declare themselves
>"ontop".  Which would be bad, because lots of CD / MP3 players seem to
>think that undecorated windows are cool :-)
>
>I am in favour of leaving ontop and below as hints, and pointing out that
>they won't necessarily mean anything for eg. dock or desktop windows.

I think desktop windows would set "stay below", and docks might set either.

>I am pretty happy with:
>
>Categories:
>
>Undecorated
>Toolbar
>Menu 
>Dialog
>Main window
>
>New hints:
>
>Stay on top
>Stay below
>Modal
>Group modal
>[ Urgent (as per ICCCM) ]
>[ Omnipresent (use DESKTOP hint) ]
>[ Non-resizable (use WM_SIZE_HINTS) ]

Me too. Anyone else want to modify the list?

>I suggest that what we really need to do is get a version of this spec
>finalised and get some implementations of it.  We're never going to get it
>100% perfect first time, so I reckon we need to get something released and
>get some feedback.

I agree. I think the only major outstanding issue is pager/tasklist
interaction. My feelings are as follows:

The simplest place to implement a pager/tasklist is as part of the window 
manager (possibly an optional module). Most window managers provide one.

Users do not switch window managers often, so a tasklist which remains the
same when the user switches window managers is not a big advantage.

Window managers which can operate outside the DE do not *need* to communicate
with the DE's pager/tasklist, since they already provide equivalents of their
own, usually better looking. (Although they might still *want* to use the
DE's version).

Windows managers which are specifically designed for the DE (ie KWM, future
Gnome window managers) could use a CORBA interface to export window management
functions.

Therefore I think an *optional* CORBA interface is the best way to communicate
with an external pager/tasklist. However, if I'm the only one who still has a
problem with this, I'm happy to go with the current proposal if it means we
will get the spec out the door.

Anyway, enough of what I think.


Michael Rogers