Re: Decorations (again)

[Michael ROGERS <M Rogers cs ucl ac uk>]

>> >What about windows that want no decoration at all, but still wish to be
>> >managed?  Perhaps that should be a hint?  Or do we invent some more
>> >categories?
>> 
>> If we have an Undecorated category, and a "Keep above" and "Keep below" hint,
>> docks and desktop icons can use a combination of these, so we don't need Dock
>> or Desktop categories. Sounds familiar...  ;)
>
>:-)  Except that IMHO window+ontop+nodecoration != dock, because dock
>windows probably want to be stacked in a different layer from normal
>windows with ontop set.  I don't think that the ontop hint has much
>meaning for anything other than a normal window...

I can't see the usefulness of more than three layers in a real world situation
(although I admit this may just be my preference). Layers interfere with the 
normal raising/lowering behaviour of the window manager, so they introduce 
"breakdowns"; they make the window manager's mechanism visible. For example, I 
try to raise a window, it doesn't work, and I become aware of the fact that 
it's in layer 7 and the window obscuring it is in layer 8. Frustrated, I move 
the obscuring window aside instead.

Of course, layers were introduced to combat the equally frustrating situation
of normal windows obscuring the dock, or desktop icons appearing above normal
windows. And I may want to tell a particular window to "stay on top" because
I want to keep an eye on it, or because I use it all the time. We need some 
layers, but (IMHO) they become less and less transparent (and therefore less 
and less useful) when we add more than "stuck to background", "stuck to glass" 
and "floating in between". Having said that, I can see your point that "stay
on top" (for normal windows) and "stuck to glass" (for docks, etc) have
slightly different meanings. Maybe that should be reflected by using separate
categories. I don't know.  :)

>Should undecorated be a category or a hint?  I'm not sure about that
>one.

I think it should be a category, because every window must belong to a
category, and it doesn't make sense to say "decorate this window as a toolbar"
and then to set an undecorated hint.


Michael