Re: [Rhythmbox-devel] rhythmbox interface

[Jorn Baayen <jorn nl linux org>]

On Fri, 2002-11-22 at 16:21, Luca Ferretti wrote:
> Il gio, 2002-11-21 alle 21:00, Jorn Baayen ha scritto: 
> > Hi,
> > 
> > The current Rhythmbox interface isn't very good, and we've been thinking
> > about improving it, but it's hard. So some input from you guys would
> > rule.
> > 
> Ok, I'll try :-) 
> 
> > Current interface, with it's problems:
> > ======================================
> > 1. The interface changes when clicking a button in the sidebar, just
> > like Evolution. My opinion is that it sucks, badly. I tend to remember
> > where items are in the menus, and if they get messed up all the time, I
> > get confused.
> This in true, partially. Yeah, changing items in menus isn't good, but
> sidebar as "music source selector" could be a good metaphor. 

In a real word stereo the amplifier doesnt change either when you click
a source button, does it? :) Instead, you have different 'interfaces' in
separate 'windows' connected to a central unit.

> 
> In evo it sucks 'cause you switch between very different sub-apps (IMHO
> I like more "email" "addressbook" "task" "calendar" single app in
> different windows and a "Summary Page" window). But in music files
> playing a list view is the best you can have and you can share it
> between library, playlist and cd-audio. In all you can use a list to
> show current selected songs: you just need a different way to choose
> selected song 'cause lib, playlists and cd are different "source" with
> different list handling. 
> 
> My little stupid idea is using sidebar whit only 3 or 4 entries:
> "Library" "Playlist" "CD Audio" ("Internet Radio"), if we want to use
> again sidebar. 
> 
> But if don't, we need something to switch, at least, between "Library"
> and "Playlist" view. 

Yeah, if we need to switch it all. (in the blaat idea series you dont :)
)

> 
> > 2. The toolbar with the playback controls and the area with the
> > currently playing information are static; they don't change when
> > switching between views, and act on the playing view. This is really,
> > really confusing. Even though I wrote it, I still find myself being
> > dizzy when using it. (Just hiding these wouldnt work either: because it
> > still is playing. Or stopping playback is not an option either, since
> > you may just want to browse your playlists or do some organization.)
> But we need a well visible area whit "current status" :-) 

Definetely.

> 
> > 3. It's not obvious how to add songs to groups/playlists. (Right now you
> > have to dnd songs from the lib to the sidebar button, or use C&P)
> This is the current major difficult in rb, right. And the real kernel to
> solve:-( 

Yep..

> 
> > 4. Users cannot specify what song to play after the current one.
> > Playlists are not enough here; if you are playing from the library, you
> > want to be able to say which song is to play next.
> > 
> mmmhh, groups or playlist should be reorderable, library don't (or just
> form title, artist, time... list header), isn't it? 

Yeah. But we need some way to queue up songs as well, so if oyu are
playing a song from the library, and you feel like hearing a certain
song after, it should be possible to do that. Not sure how though.

> 
> > 
> > Current Ideas:
> > ==============
> > http://nl.linux.org/~jorn/Files/blaat.png
> > http://nl.linux.org/~jorn/Files/blaat2.png
> > http://nl.linux.org/~jorn/Files/altblaat.png
> > 
> > The view on the left would be the song queue/playlist view.
> > 
> > The problem with these is that the interface is crowded; I dont think
> > it's very clear.
> > 
> 
> Yeah probably 'cause you put in the same window library and playlist stuffs.
> And you have 2 list showing current "playlist". 

Yes, kind of. Have a look at
http://nl.linux.org/~jorn/Files/ah_blaat2.png. This one is a lot cleaner
IMHO; thanks to Andrew Higginbottom. It has problems though; the
dropdowns wont work if you have lots of artists/albums, and whole
artist/album dnd wont work anymore.

> 
> ----------------------------
> Library and Playlist are antithetical and complementary ways to play
> songs. Library rocks when you want to find a particular song or you want
> to play all song from an album or an artist, playlist (== list of songs
> to play) rocks when you want an exact sequence of song with a "personal"
> order. xmms interface (== only playlists) sucks 'cause you have to do
> pls for _all_ order you wont. Besides a lib only interface has 
> limitations: you can only choose "Shuffle".[1] 
> 
> So: different way --> needs different interfaces 
> 
> Actual rb lib interface is the best we can have: browser + list (+
> search entry) enable user to perform all search he wants and see results
> in list. So I think we don't have to change Library. 

Yeah, I agree.

> 
> My idea is add a "Playlists" button in sidebar with a view like: 
> 
> ____________    _________________________________________ 
> | Playlists  |  | Title  |   Artist    | Rating    | Time | 
> ------------    ----------------------------------------- 
> |List1       |  |        |             |           |      | 
> |List2       |  |        |             |           |      | 
> |List3       |  |        |             |           |      | 
> |List4       |  |        |             |           |      | 
> |List5       |  |        |             |           |      | 
> |List6       |  |        |             |           |      | 
> |List7       |  |        |             |           |      | 
>  ------------    -----------------------------------------
>                                                     | 
>   |                                                 | 
>   |                                                 | 
>   +--- a list of all available playlist             | 
>                                                     | 
>                a list of all songs in current pl ---+ 
> 
> Or, more simple 'cause you can find all infos in lib and you need to
> know only 
> ____________     ___________________ 
> | Playlists  |   | Songs in <List1>  |  
> ------------     ------------------- 
> |List1       |   |                   | 
> |List2       |   |                   | 
> |List3       |   |                   | 
> |List4       |   |                   | 
> |List5       |   |                   | 
> |List6       |   |                   | 
> |List7       |    ------------------- 
>  ------------             ^ v         <-- this to order without d'n'd
> 
> where song entry is reorderable.

I think having playlists in the main sidebar would be better, and it
will be no problem when we use a normal list.

> 
> The real trouble is: how can I put a song from library to a playlist?????
> mmhhh best prob is: let user find the better way. So we can implement
> copy/paste from lib to pl, d'n'd from lib to pl icon in sidebar,
> rgclick->Add to playlist-> |  New  | 
>                            |-------| 
>                            |list 1 |
>                            |list 2 |
> and, finally, something like a file selector using library order... but
> it's too much expensive.... 

Yeah.. but these are still not attacking the fundamental problem.

Thanks,
Jorn

> 
> Finally, but just 'cause now I've other activities, a stupid glade
> design: main windows with just player area (as actual: info about
> current track) and source selector + current songs and secondary windows
> (Library, Playlist...) where you can adjust things and select current
> songs
> 
> 
> [1] BTW: lib is the best if you have ripped album, but a little
> "overloaded" if you have just downloaded mp3 :-) 
>