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Re: [orca-list] KDE Plasma Launcher "Kickoff" makes progress in accessibility

Hello,
I am on arch linux and just for testing I've installed plasma-desktop to feel how awesome this is going to be.
However the kick off rework bringing accessibility improvements we are discussing here is not yet part of a stable release. Thus if you are on arch or manjaro the easiest is to install plasma-desktop-git from the AUR. 



Greetings


Peter


Dňa 7. 1. 2021 o 19:47 Vojtěch šmiro via orca-list napísal(a):

Hello,
and where can I download this? Or is some system prepared for us with KDE Plasma? 

Thanks.

Best regards

Vojta.

Dne 07. 01. 21 v 17:07 chrys napsal(a):

Howdy,

happy new year to all

just an small update about KDE Plasma accessibility:
the reworked launcher just landed in master. so we will have an accessible launcher by default in next KDE Plasma desktop :). 

cheers chrys


Am 28.12.20 um 15:18 schrieb sonfire11--- via orca-list:
** Having a Braille display is in a way a must for more than occasional script here and there,
To clarify the above statement... A matter of preference, not a must or enforced guideline. This means I can use Orca, NVDA, or JAWS speech output to get the job done. In fact, I made it through 6 years of university with only speech output. I am a co-founder for an increasingly popular accessibility system for flight simulators, written my own NVDA addon that helps blind/visually impaired developers create appealing web pages/user interfaces, etc. All without a braille display. 
-----Original Message-----
From: orca-list <orca-list-bounces gnome org> On Behalf Of Pawel Urbanski 
Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2020 5:02 PM
To: chrys <chrys linux-a11y org>
Cc: orca-list gnome org
Subject: Re: [orca-list] KDE Plasma Launcher "Kickoff" makes progress in accessibility
VS Code or for fokes very much into pure open source Codium works really well... As a matter of fact - Orca's support is very good out of the box. Speaking from experience of creating an NVDA add-on to improve some aspects of ergonomics when coding. Since NVDA is written in Python, just like Orca I figured out a few tricks to make coding easier: ** Having a Braille display is in a way a must for more than occasional script here and there, ** Python's indentation can eat cells on a Braille display very quickly for they come in packs of 4 space characters per indent, ** If you are not the purist and go for tabs for indentation things look much better, ** A workaround I am considering now is to extend Louis Braille table definition to replace a sequence of 4 spaces into a single tab character, ** It should allow for standard space indents and not eat Braille display realestate like hungry kid eats candies, 
** Will expand the abbriviated tab symbol to 4 spaces when focused.
And then thre is much more than editing, namely: debugging, launching the thing you are coding or convenient way to compare file differences... 

All the best...

On 27/12/2020, chrys <chrys linux-a11y org> wrote:

Howdy,


I wish you hadn't mixed quotes from different authors without
attribution .  Mine being the second one is out of context as well.

oh sorry, maybe i mixed some stuff from the historys lol.



Please go to python.org, download the latest Windows installer

well, ok windows is a different world :), but this is a linux
screenreader list. so i assume you are using linux. last time when i
installed something on windows i was asked to install an browser bar
as well lol. maybe the package maintainer of the windows installer
package thinks this IDE is a must have.
well but even on windows there might be an accessible texteditor or
shell? cmd? powershell? sorry i m not an windows user, nor� i use a
screen reader. might sound stupid but this is a serious question. i
just cannot imagine that there is no way to write a textfile and bring
it to the interpreter.


Yes, python is quite command-line friendly but it isn't heavily
emphasized any more outside of the UNIX community.

yea right, on windows .net is the dominated thing those days. python,
bash, ruby and so on sadly are very rare there.

cheers chrys

Am 27.12.20 um 19:37 schrieb Dan Miner via orca-list:

I wish you hadn't mixed quotes from different authors without
attribution .  Mine being the second one is out of context as well.

Generally, I agree with everything you said.  Also our perspectives
of "what is accessible" is different due to the methods and tools
each individual uses.  Using TTS methods on C-like languages can be
quite problematic but a braille user might find nothing amiss.  I
realize my problems generally revolve around using TTS as my sole
means but braille is difficult to learn and gain strong fluency in later years of life. 
Plus,, a hugely expensive device for a 40+ cell braille display does
not help.

Now, your assertion about GUI not being standard in python.  Please
go to python.org, download the latest Windows installer and install
all components.  You'll find IDLE, a TkInter based IDE and console.
Then, follow the tutorial pointers on the thank you page.� This is
the inaccessibility I am referring to.

Yes, python is quite command-line friendly but it isn't heavily
emphasized any more outside of the UNIX community.  I see so many
posts about blind and VI people wanting to learn python but can't
quite figure out how to beat that first barrier of python promoting
methods of learning which aren't accessible out of the box.

So to be clear, my main gripe is with Tk and the general educational
model of learning python these days.  I definitely can do something
about Tk which I intend to do so over the coming months.

    Dan



-----Original Message-----
From: orca-list <orca-list-bounces gnome org> On Behalf Of chrys
Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2020 8:24 AM
To: orca-list gnome org
Subject: Re: [orca-list] KDE Plasma Launcher "Kickoff" makes progress
in accessibility

Howdy,


Some of what python builds isn't even compatible with gtk let alone
the command line user environment in Linux.  You might try
installing and running pyching and see if you can get that speaking.

well this makes really no sense... python is a programming language
not a toolkit.
it like saying my pizza is not compatible to salami. a developer can
use GTK for creating a graphical user interface, but its not
mandatory. the developer can even use wx or QT. it the default
widgets of the toolkit doesn't implement accessibility its the fault
of the toolkit, not of an programming language.

on step more,  pyching looks like its using a custom set of widgets,
so those are just handmade by the developer itself ( not using a
standard widget of an toolkit) in this case the developer also need
to implement the required accessibility interfaces (in whatever
language it is written)

but all this belongs to _all_ programming languages not only to
python


Just
imagine if the standard python GUI tools were accessible across its
supported platforms (e.g., IDLE).

python doesn't ship any GUI tools. it only ships the python
interpreter with some default librarys to do stuff like math or time
operations, this will give an interactive mode, but this is command
line only. if python ships any GUI tools then those are packed by your distributor. 
its also not mandatory to have a UI to do any Python related work. If
i write some scripts for my server i use VIM via ssh. so no GUI
interaction at all.


cheers chrys

Am 27.12.20 um 09:07 schrieb Jude DaShiell:

Some of what python builds isn't even compatible with gtk let alone
the command line user environment in Linux.  You might try
installing and running pyching and see if you can get that speaking.



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Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
GNOME Universal Access guide:
https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html

_______________________________________________
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orca-list gnome org
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
GNOME Universal Access guide:
https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html


_______________________________________________
orca-list mailing list
orca-list gnome org
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
GNOME Universal Access guide:
https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html


_______________________________________________
orca-list mailing list
orca-list gnome org
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
GNOME Universal Access guide: https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html 

_______________________________________________
orca-list mailing list
orca-list gnome org
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
GNOME Universal Access guide: https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html 


_______________________________________________
orca-list mailing list
orca-list gnome org
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
GNOME Universal Access guide: https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html 
_______________________________________________
orca-list mailing list
orca-list gnome org
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
GNOME Universal Access guide: https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html

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