Re: [orca-list] Should Orca ever speak "frame" for windows?

["B. Henry" <burt1iband gmail com>]

I personally have no pref for frame over window or some other word other than
the slight logical advantage that frame is a one syllable word, window has
that pesky 2nd syllable...lol...
I can also see the point quoted below that some folks coming from another OS
may be used  to hearing window in this context. 

My thoughts/questions are-
1. How many ppl would really have such a hard time getting the translation
from window to frame? I'd think most folk of near average mental dextarity,
even those a bit on the slow end of the "average" spectrum could handle this
with out as much time spent as they'd spend listening to the 2nd syllable iin
window over a few weeks, months??, of using orca, and maybe there are a few
outlyer cases of folks who are not very flexible and have used windows for
many years who'd actually  have a notable issue with the switch. 

2. Why do we need frame or window at all? What is the alternative or possible
confusion? I may be just missing the obvious, this is not meant to be
retorical or egotistical. Maybe I just miss some things I hear and or react
without any concious thought to frame and something else.

3. I just double checked on my admittedly non-standard gui, and realized that
when there is a moderately large amount of info spoken, e.g. when switching to
a pcmanfm file&folder list window I don't hear frame. If I move to the
pathbar, toolbar or side pane and tab out and back in, still nothing; even
though the pathbar only says a couple of words. I am almost sure I heard fram
a few minutes ago when first opening the  pcmanfm window and alt-tabbing away
and back to it. I don't have more time to play with this right now, but will
test a bit more later, i.e. maybe in the main pane frame is spoken if I have a
less  verbos view mode set. I use a detailed list view most of the time that
speaks file size, last modified, and file type, (wish that last one was not
spoken). 
Actually, a quick retest now has frame spoken when coming back to pcmanfm
window wen focus is on either pathbar or toolbar, but not on the main pane
where files are listed, nor the side pane where bookmarks and a few other
items are shown. 
What is the difference, i.e. is there a frame drawn around the toolbar  but
not around the bookmarks and such? 
Even if a physical frame is drawn on screen, when is this of any use to me
other than trying to discribe the window's appearance to a sighted person?

4. I use brief verbosity setting most of the time unless someone I'm teaching
orca basics to says they prefer the extra info after having listened to a few
minutes of both brief and verbose...
Can frame be spoken  when in verbose mode and not in brief?

To summerize, I'm in  favor of making the transition from windows to linux as
painless as possible, and  have no issue with adopting windows screenreader
liingo or keybindings when there is no advantage to the Orca way, but do not
think catering to the least adaptable minds to  the detriment of a more
logical &/or efficient experience is seldom wise; especially when many if not
most folks use Linux because they are looking for a more efficient, logical,
(yeah, safer too), and dare I say better computing experience.?...???

We've gone through the ease of transition from other screenreaders vs a
consistent experience for existing users debate more than once here as I
recall. Ideally there is little conflict, and if there is it's nice to provide
an optioin to meet either use case when there is a major difference between
what is best for each user group, but this is  pretty minor in the scheme of
things I reckon. Still, ... ///??? go for the efficient/logical choice, no
matter where the idea comes from first!
 
    
-- 
     B.H.
   Registerd Linux User 521886


  Alex ARNAUD wrote:
Wed, May 16, 2018 at 05:44:01PM +0200

> Hello Joanie,
>
> No, it could be replaced by "window", it is the behavior of NVDA on Windows
> 10. With "window" users won't be lose information, just eh wording is
> changed. My little experience when I teach blind or low-vision users makes
> me using the window wording, not the frame one.
>
> Thanks Joanie for asking this on the mailing list :).
>
> Best regards,
> Alex.
>
> Le 16/05/2018 à 17:34, Will Estes a écrit :
> > Yes, there exist reasonable circumstances under which that is a desired form of feedback.
> >
> > On Wednesday, 16 May 2018, 11:32 am -0400, Joanmarie Diggs <jdiggs igalia com> wrote:
> >
> > > Hey all.
> > >
> > > Should Orca ever speak "frame" for windows? Right now this is a yes/no
> > > question. (Of course, all users should be able to customize everything.
> > > On the todo list. But that won't happen immediately. So telling me
> > > anything other than yes or no is not helpful.)
> > >
> > > Thanks!
> > > --joanie
> > > _______________________________________________
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> > > Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
> > > GNOME Universal Access guide: https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
> > > Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org
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