Re: [orca-list] update on the antergos problems

[kendell clark <coffeekingms gmail com>]

hi

The issue seems to have finally been solved by upgrading pulse audio to 
it's git version and also upgrading speech dispatcher to it's git 
version. I've had several reboots where speech dispatcher has worked 
like it should. I want to get involved in the speech dispatcher 
community so I can bring bug reports to the source and help get them 
fixed. I can't code, but I'll gladly help test and help track down bugs. 
Although, I'd like to be able to debug to make sure there's a bug 
somewhere rather than using my logic for spotting bugs. Is there a way 
of hooking into processes to see what they're sending? I know about gdb, 
but don't know how to use it. Since I'm using linux only, I want to help 
it improve. I'm already working with the linux a11y organization to help 
track down bugs, and I'd like to work with hypra to do the same, 
although I can't code. I don't mean get paid, as a volunteer. Since 
speech dispatcher was taken over by the debian guys, are the same lists 
still used to discuss, issue pages on github, etc? I didn't even know 
speech dispatcher was on github. It wasn't before, it was on speech 
dispatcher's own website. I'll start by cloning it's git repo. I already 
have orca cloned.

Thanks

Kendell Clark



On 02/14/2018 12:24 AM, kendell clark wrote:
> hi
>
> Thanks for your help, as usual lol. You're a lot more patient than I 
> would be in your spot. Obviously my memory is wrong or out of date. I 
> could've sworn luke removed the alsa backend, but either he didn't or 
> it was put back, and if you say it works with espeak ng then it does. 
> As for the pulse issue, if it is a pulse issue, I'm so confused I'm 
> not even sure what the problem is anymore lol. I'm not going to file a 
> bug accusing speech dispatcher with this little evidence. All I really 
> have is, pulse messes up, in some vague way I can't explain, and 
> speech dispatcher stops speaking. I fiddle a bit, deleting it's 
> settings and reinstalling, and it works, for a little while. That's 
> not much better than a brand new linux user saying orca doesn't work 
> and providing no further proof. I'll have to do better than that. I am 
> pretty sure that at some point the alsa output module in the arch 
> build of speech dispatcher wouldn't build, or wasn't being built by 
> default. I probably took this to mean that it was gone. But that's out 
> of date anyway since it's back and has obviously had some work done on 
> it if it works now. The last time I tried using it, which was at least 
> a couple of years ago, it had some serious problems, lots of 
> segfaults. I am on the speech dispatcher mailing list though, and will 
> move the discussion there since it's obviously not an orca bug. Don't 
> be sorry about correcting my statements either. If everyone did what I 
> just did, we'd have rumors floating around that the linux kernel devs 
> had quit, or were fired when ms bought them out, and so on. You'd 
> think I'd know better as long as I've been using linux.
>
> Thanks
>
> Kendell clark
>
>
>
> On 02/13/2018 02:10 PM, Didier Spaier wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > [quoted lines from Kendell Clark]:
> > > I’m sorry, I should’ve been clearer. I didn’t mean to accuse debian
> > > guys of making a mistake, but rather that speech-dispatcher’s pulse
> > > audio code itself needs reworking, and that the debian guys who are
> > > maintaining speech dispatcher might want to, when they have time of
> > > course, take a look.
> > Well, Samuel Thibault (in CC) is one of the current maintainers of the
> > Debian packagee for speech dispatcher and moreover the new upstream
> > maintainer of speech-dispatcher cf.: https://devel.freebsoft.org/speechd
> >
> > However I assume that he would expect you to file a bug in:
> > https://github.com/brailcom/speechd/issues
> >
> > But he would certainly need more precise information, as the issue could
> > as well be due to orca, pulse or a specific configuration setting.
> >
> > [quoted lines from Kendell Clark]:
> > > I don’t remember the details, but luke said several times that speech
> > > dispatcher’s pulse audio code needed a lot of work, something about
> > > speech dispatcher using a simple API and pulse audio having a … a … oh
> > > what was it, more complex one but that speech dispatcher wasn’t using
> > > it? Something like that.
> > These statements are too vague to be useful. The code of the pulseaudio
> > backend for the spd_audio library is in /src/audio/pulse.c and if
> > something need to be changed here someone has to state why. Anyway I
> > assume that if Luke had possible enhancements in mind he spoke about
> > them with Samuel before leaving the project.
> >
> > [quoted lines from Kendell Clark]:
> > > I can try alsa or even better, libao. I’m hesitant to use speech
> > > dispatcher’s alsa backend because it’s even worse than it’s pulse
> > > backend. Especially with espeak. It hangs nearly constantly, and
> > > that’s with espeak, not espeak ng. I’m not even sure it would work
> > > with espeak ng. Also, I believe luke ripped it out. The only supported
> > > backends are now pulse or libao. I will try libao though.
> > I am sorry but I have to correct some of your statements.
> > First, the alsa backend works perfectly: I am using it right now with
> > espeak-ng.
> >
> > I can also say with certainty that Luke didn't rip anything from the
> > source tree of speech-dispatcher as I can see these files in the
> > src/audio directory:
> > alsa.c
> > libao.c
> > nas.c
> > oss.c
> > pulse.c
> >
> > And I see among the files in src/modules directory espeak.c and
> > espeak-ng.c (otherwise how could I use espeak-ng?)
> >
> > Caveat: I am speaking about the upstream files, I didn't check how
> > Debian or Antergos packaged them, especially if they removed some
> > backends or modules. Anyway I don't see any issue with
> > speech-dispatcher proper.
> >
> >
> > [quoted lines from Kendell Clark]:
> > > Again, I’m not absolutely certain speech dispatcher is at fault. I am
> > > fairly certain, since when I lose speech, orca starts but doesn’t
> > > speak, orca’s preferences open, progress bars beep, etc but there’s no
> > > speech. Fiddling with pulse audio will restore speech, for a little
> > > bit.
> > Could you tell which kind of fiddling exactly, please? Knowing that 
> > could
> > help investigate
> >
> > [quoted lines from Kendell Clark]:
> > > I really wish in times like this orca would rely on espeak ng directly
> > > instead of going through speech dispatcher.
> > Well, I will let Joanie answer to such a request if she wants to ;)
> >
> >
> > [quoted lines from Kendell Clark]:
> > > I understand the logic both for and against sd, but at least have a
> > > backup so if problems like this come up you’re not left with no
> > > speech. Just think what would happen if a new user were hit with this.
> > > They’d probably conclude that Linux is buggy and doesn’t work well,
> > > run back to what they were using and … well you get the idea. I’m not
> > > trying to start a debate either, only pointing out that this isn’t a
> > > problem a new user would be able to solve. I’m able to  limit the
> > > damage it does, but I can’t fix it.
> > Again, I still don't know what the problem really is, and am still not
> > convinced that a change in speech dispatcher, let alone dropping it, is
> > necessary.
> >
> > If you want to be sure that orca + speech-dispatcher + epseak-ng can
> > work, just try Slint. To do that, just type:
> > wget 
> > https://sourceforge.net/projects/slint/files/14.2.1/slint64-14.2.1.1.iso
> > More information in:
> > http://slint.fr/wiki/en/installation
> > See also:
> > http://slackware.uk/slint/x86_64/slint-14.2.1/doc/ACCESSIBILITY
> >
> > Greetings
> >
> > Didier Spaier