Re: [orca-list] The new Hypra website

[Rob Whyte <fudge thefudge net>]

Well said as always CJ.



On 28/08/16 13:53, Christopher Chaltain wrote:
> All things being equal, I'd prefer and promote the use of open and
> free software, but I also think that freedom includes the right to use
> the software of your choice and the right to choose where you spend
> your time as a developer.
>
> Anyone who knows me or is on different lists with me knows that I use
> Linux by choice. I don't shove it down anyone's throat though, and I
> don't get bent out of shape because others choose to use Windows or
> another proprietary system. I may ask why someone is using a
> proprietary system, and I may point out the benefits of using a
> comparable free and open solution, but if they choose not to listen to
> me then that's fine. I would never criticize anyone or put someone
> down for using a proprietary solution if their job requires it or just
> because they choose to do so.
>
> I also think this freedom extends to developers and engineers as well.
> If someone has a solution that people will pay for then I don't have a
> problem with people deciding to go the proprietary route. Not
> everyone, in today's economic system, can afford to just contribute
> their time to open and free projects. Also, not every company has the
> revenue channels to make money on open products. Cannonical has been
> trying for years to turn a profit based around open source solutions,
> but the last I knew, they still weren't profitable. Sure companies
> like Google, IBM and Microsoft have contributed to open source
> projects, but they are large companies with diverse revenue streams,
> often including proprietary products.
>
> As I said above, I prefer open products myself, and I've said in the
> past, I respect those who are able to commit to and use only open
> products.
>
> On 27/08/16 16:33, Al Sten-Clanton wrote:
> > I'd be glad to see the era of propritary software end for good, along
> > with other sorts of "intellectual property."  I go further on that track
> > than I think Richard Stallman does.  That would require a massive change
> > in general thinking and in the laws, change that may never come and
> > certainly won't come easily.
> >
> > That said, real freedom includes the freedom to use as much proprietary
> > software as you want, regardless of what I or anybody else thinks of
> > your reasons.  Of course, I also agree with many of the practical points
> > Bert and others have made.
> >
> > Al
> >
> > On 8/27/2016 12:17 PM, B. Henry wrote:
> > > Yes, I really did not want to write about this again, but as you must
> > > not have seen the discussion in the past...
> > > The free engines work fine for many people, and fine for some or many
> > > jobs for others, but for another groups of us who do things that
> > > require near perfect
> > > results, i.e. to fill out paperwork that has life impacting
> > > importance, read mail that may be in much less clear fonts than those
> > > you have recognized on
> > > your computer screen with ocrdesktop, etc, yes, there is for sure a
> > > reason to use something that gives better results.
> > > I can't compare abbyy to teseract as I've not used the former, but I
> > > can compare the results using lios or something else using teseract to
> > > the results I
> > > got using kurzweil, and the difference on more than one occasion, was
> > > between around 70% accuracy and 92% accuracy. That is major, and not
> > > only that, but
> > > 70% accuracy is not good enough to do more than see what something is
> > > more or less, e.g., would you get anything out of a bank statement
> > > that was only 70%
> > > read correctly?
> > > I do not get bank documents, or anything else in paper if I can get it
> > > on line as a pdf, but the whole point of the program, as far as I know
> > > lios is what
> > > is being worked on,
> > > is to give folks something good enough to do as much as is possible
> > > with, i.e. not a something that won't work for many people in its
> > > target user base.
> > > I do not use other opperating systems other than Linux on my PC(s)
> > > unless there is a document I can not OCR. I honestly can think of
> > > nothing else other
> > > than occasional curiosity that has gotten me to use my one installed
> > > copy of windows in years, but I must keep a working windows to run
> > > kurzweil, and I can
> > > imagine myself traveling, and traveling I'd not have my windows box
> > > with me ever, where I'd need to read a paper of some kind.
> > > I can not say to someone who has always gotten very good results
> > > using  cuniform or teseract that that is not there experience, but
> > > I've seen the
> > > difference in results between  the better proprietary options and the
> > > options from the FOS world.
> > > Also, as long as I am writing this, the one major difference between
> > > the "eloquence case" as another poster called it and this is that the
> > > old ibm-tts has
> > > not been developed in years. Abbyy is a maintained piece of software,
> > > and there are other proprietary engines that are maintained and or
> > > under development
> > > that might become available, or be made available for us on Linux.
> > > Would I prefer seeing tesseract improve to at least with in striking
> > > range of the accuracy acheived by the best solutions available for
> > > personal computers,
> > > hell yes! If that isnot possible would I like to see some one write a
> > > new rockin FOS OCR solution, again for sure and of course.
> > > I do not know of such work, but as I said before, then when it becomes
> > > available we can use the free engine(s), but until then let's not try
> > > and tell
> > > people they can't work, and or must get a lot of extra sighted help.
> > > If you do not need the proprietary engine, then of course you are more
> > > than free not to use it, but do not try and hold those who do need it
> > > back.
> > > I'm done, said this stuff before, tried to be clear and maybe even
> > > persuasive, but hey, the fsf has not even put a priority on
> > > accessiblity that I've ever
> > > seen.
> > > What, one of their darling distros is nicely accessibler for blind
> > > folks, another completely unusable from what I hear, and...can't
> > > remember about the
> > > other for sure.
> > > My point being, we are not necesarily going to get any help from the
> > > hard core free software movement, nor have I seen any new free OCR
> > > projects mentioned
> > > in any context, so it's posibly not just a case of holding out for a
> > > few months.
> > > I get the propaganda because I strongly support FOS, even started a
> > > google group to promote the discussion of accessible free software,
> > > but because some
> > > proprietary projects exist in the world, and maybe some of us need to
> > > use a few of them, that does not make free software less valid, not as
> > > good or
> > > anything else other than what it is and can be.
> > > Actually there's a case to be made that a good proprietary project can
> > > put pressure on the good free project to become better, not just a
> > > "poorman's
> > > solution".
> > > I apologize for the verbose conclusion, bjut really want to move on to
> > > other things and wanted to make the major points and be done with it.
> > > Regards,
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