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Re: [orca-list] GUI Redesign or clearup and modernization

In Linux, there is no y'all.  There is we.  If you don't understand that, you are in for perpetual 
frustration.  As for Orca's braille support, I'm fine with it, personally.  I use a Focus 80 at work and a 
Focus 40 at home.  I've also used it with a Braille Sense Plus which has a brailled display built in to it.  
I have  no complaints.  I've used it in multilingual situations such as when reading the works of Cicero, 
Ovid and Virgil in the original Latin on sites like bibliotheca Augustana and even trying to wrap my head 
around the braille system in use for Ancient Greek texts like the Septuagint and the works of Archimedes.  
Orca did OK for me there.  Did fine in modern languages too like my own sweet native Spanish.  I use it as an 
enhancement on the speech portion.  So, it's not mission critical for me.  

As for Apple and Windows doing better than Linux?  Well, they may have the  lead in some things but there are 
other situations in which they are left far behind.  They have things like budgets and charge incredibly high 
prices for their products.  Linux is about everyone pitching in to make something better.  Those who code, 
modify and enhance or create applications/software.  Those of us who don't, either write docs, provide 
assistance or create awareness.  We all do something to make it work.  It's called a community.  You 
obviously don't get that.  Where other OS's charge money, Linux charges time and effort.  I honestly don't 
think you are the kind of person suited for Linux.  You will find frustration at every turn with your outlook 
and you will put people off who would otherwise try and help you, thereby creating an overall negative 
experience you may well feel you can do without at the end of the day.

Be well,
Alex M

Ps  Sent from my Windows machine.  (Just in case you get the idea I'm one of those exclusively Free software 
types.  They won't be as gentle as I have been with you.  You'll probably soon see what I mean.)

-----Original Message-----
From: orca-list [mailto:orca-list-bounces gnome org] On Behalf Of Devin Prater
Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2015 10:46 PM
To: B. Henry
Cc: orca-list gnome org
Subject: Re: [orca-list] GUI Redesign or clearup and modernization

My biggest problem with Orca is the braille support. Orca can't even do word-wrapping, so it cuts off words 
at the end of lines, making braille reading a very uncomfortable experience. Even Apple does braille fairly 
well. Are y'all gonna let Apple, a proprietary company with a little accessibility newbies beat you? This is 
the kind of stuff I'm talking about, the embarrassing shortcomings of Linux accessibility. 

Sent from my iPhone


On Sep 1, 2015, at 12:24 PM, B. Henry <burt1iband gmail com> wrote:

Well, it's not unreasonalble to ask users to read a bit of 
documentation to learn a keystroke or two when trying a new desktop, 
but unless I'm missing something folks like myself who use a window manager such as fluxbox and fill in 
accessibility gaps with custom scripts would be left out in the cold if an orca prefs window was done away 
with.
There are some people using hardware that performs much better running 
something very light lie this, and while I can run gnome and even 
unity with pretty good responsiveness I have a nicer experience with my fluxbox, and was hoping to turn my 
setup in to something others could instal easily on their distro's minimal installation option, e.g. the 
debian net-install or a basic talking-arch installation.
I get that moving prefs to gnome or mate control center is neater on a 
philisophical level, but is this somehow much easier for devs? I do 
not see that it is easier on end users, perhaps not harder, but not an improvement, and certainly not one 
that is great enough that is worth forcing  others to abandon their graphical environment of choice.
There are some people who onlly start orca on demand with one or a few 
gui aps, e.g. firefox, folks who prefer to do everything they can in CLI consoles who would also be left 
out in the cold.




-- 
    B.H.
  Registerd Linux User 521886


 kendell clark wrote:
Sun, Aug 30, 2015 at 07:58:23PM -0500


hi
This sounds good to me. Although I don't mind the current orca 
layout, being able to change orca settings in the same place I cahnge 
all otehr settings would definitely be handy.
Thanks
Kendell clark



On 08/30/2015 05:55 PM, Luke Yelavich wrote:
Re-sending to list, forgot to reply to list.


On 28 Aug 2015, at 8:37 am, chrys87 <chrys87 web de> wrote:
Howdy,

nomnom :) a redesign is a fully redesigned new GUI. so almost written from scratch. newly designed code, 
and maybe layout (i looks really stalled, i do not use orca often. but my girlfriend do, she dont like 
it because a "card layout" its not the best in things of navigation. I agree with her that a more "list" 
orientated layout would be more efficient (also in things like we are more able to keep things more 
generic in the codebase, what lead to more easy contribution to orca).

A "clearup and modernization" its mosstly clean up the really stalled code ( its hard to integrate some 
new things, thats what i learned in my work on the orca beeps). no real name convention, confuse names 
(combobox1, combobox2, combobox3), fix warnings while start the GUI, port to more current techniques. :).


I’d be interested in having a look at what you are working on. I 
have been working on a GSettings backend for Orca for a week or so 
now, just about to start the actual coding, after much planning and 
writing out the GSettings metadata. Longer term, to properly support 
individual desktop environments offering Orca settings in their 
system settings control panels, it may be worth moving settings 
management, both in the storage and retrieval of settings, as well 
as presenting settings in the UI to a C library. The desktop 
environments that work with Orca now are written in either C/GObject 
C, or C++. Orca itself would make use of this C library, and with 
some planning, we could develop an API that allows a the settings 
for Orca to dynamically be presented and updated, such that any new 
settings only need to be added to Orca, and the UI in the desktop 
environments dynamically updates based on what they retrieve via 
Orca’s settings API. This library would then take care of s

toring th
e settings, most likely in GSettings.


I suspect one reason why some people are against individual desktop environments offering Orca settings 
in their control center, is due to the possibility of Orca settings being out of sync with what is 
offered in their control center. I’d argue that it would not be too far fetched, and not too difficult to 
implement things such that desktop environment developers only need to implement Orca’s settings API 
once, and then any new settings Orca offers are automatically presented when they are added to Orca. 
Would that be enough to convince you folks that using the control centre of your desktop environment to 
change Orca settings is the way to go?

Luke
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Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
GNOME Universal Access guide: 
https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org


_______________________________________________
orca-list mailing list
orca-list gnome org
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
GNOME Universal Access guide: 
https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org

_______________________________________________
orca-list mailing list
orca-list gnome org
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
GNOME Universal Access guide: 
https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org

_______________________________________________
orca-list mailing list
orca-list gnome org
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
GNOME Universal Access guide: https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org
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