Re: [orca-list] GUI Redesign or clearup and modernization

From: kendell clark <coffeekingms gmail com>
To: Devin Prater <r d t prater gmail com>, "B. Henry" <burt1iband gmail com>
Cc: orca-list gnome org
Subject: Re: [orca-list] GUI Redesign or clearup and modernization
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 2015 01:38:52 -0500

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hi
If you really think orca's braille support is that bad, I honestly
can't say one way or the other since I don't own and couldn't afford a
braille display, then fire up your editor and fix it. Complaining
about it won't fix it. That being said, I'm not real familiar with how
windows does it, but I seem to remember nvda using a combination of
brltty like orca does, but combining this with braille display
specific python modules ( a pain in the neck imo) and proprietary IE
vendor specific braille display drivers. By discussions I've seen on
the nvda list when browsing around, jamie and friends can just call up
someone at braille companies and get details on the communication
protocol between the braille display and the computer, something linux
probably couldn't get, companies being fond of secrets and so on. I
don't know if braille input, that is, braille displays with keys works
in orca or not. I've heard that it does and I've heard that it
doesn't. Linux doesn't have these options, and probably wouldn't
accept them if they were offered. I think the solution might be to
improve brltty, which wasn't really designed to act as a general
purpose braille display support program, but to be the equivalent to
speakup, but using braille instead of speech. Others say orca's
braille support needs to be ripped out and replaced, but who's going
to do it. Joanie's so friggin busy it's a wonder she gets as much
accomplished as she does so she doesn't have time.  That wasn't a
complaint, by the way. I'd love to help but my coding skills are
barely adequate. I'm pretty good at filing bugs but turning concept
into code ... not so much. Honestly, at the end of the day, us blind
people have to keep on top of accessibility. This is not windows,
where you can sit back, do nothing, and breathe a contented sigh while
everyone else does all your work for you. This is not meant towards
anyone in particular, just trying to share my point of view. Linux is
great and all, but like anything else it requires involvement from the
people that use it. Going onto a mailing list and saying "apple is
doing better" or "windows does this better" is not going to improve
things.
thanks
Kendell clark



Devin Prater wrote:

My biggest problem with Orca is the braille support. Orca can't
even do word-wrapping, so it cuts off words at the end of lines,
making braille reading a very uncomfortable experience. Even Apple
does braille fairly well. Are y'all gonna let Apple, a proprietary
company with a little accessibility newbies beat you? This is the
kind of stuff I'm talking about, the embarrassing shortcomings of
Linux accessibility.

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 1, 2015, at 12:24 PM, B. Henry <burt1iband gmail com>
wrote:

Well, it's not unreasonalble to ask users to read a bit of
documentation to learn a keystroke or two when trying a new
desktop, but unless I'm missing something folks like myself who
use a window manager such as fluxbox and fill in accessibility
gaps with custom scripts would be left out in the cold if an orca
prefs window was done away with. There are some people using
hardware that performs much better running something very light
lie this, and while I can run gnome and even unity with pretty
good responsiveness I have a nicer experience with my fluxbox,
and was hoping to turn my setup in to something others could
instal easily on their distro's minimal installation option, e.g.
the debian net-install or a basic talking-arch installation. I
get that moving prefs to gnome or mate control center is neater
on a philisophical level, but is this somehow much easier for
devs? I do not see that it is easier on end users, perhaps not
harder, but not an improvement, and certainly not one that is
great enough that is worth forcing  others to abandon their
graphical environment of choice. There are some people who onlly
start orca on demand with one or a few gui aps, e.g. firefox,
folks who prefer to do everything they can in CLI consoles who
would also be left out in the cold.




-- B.H. Registerd Linux User 521886


kendell clark wrote: Sun, Aug 30, 2015 at 07:58:23PM -0500

hi This sounds good to me. Although I don't mind the current
orca layout, being able to change orca settings in the same
place I cahnge all otehr settings would definitely be handy. 
Thanks Kendell clark

On 08/30/2015 05:55 PM, Luke Yelavich wrote: Re-sending to
list, forgot to reply to list.

On 28 Aug 2015, at 8:37 am, chrys87 <chrys87 web de>
wrote: Howdy,

nomnom :) a redesign is a fully redesigned new GUI. so
almost written from scratch. newly designed code, and maybe
layout (i looks really stalled, i do not use orca often.
but my girlfriend do, she dont like it because a "card
layout" its not the best in things of navigation. I agree
with her that a more "list" orientated layout would be more
efficient (also in things like we are more able to keep
things more generic in the codebase, what lead to more easy
contribution to orca).

A "clearup and modernization" its mosstly clean up the
really stalled code ( its hard to integrate some new
things, thats what i learned in my work on the orca beeps).
no real name convention, confuse names (combobox1,
combobox2, combobox3), fix warnings while start the GUI,
port to more current techniques. :).


I’d be interested in having a look at what you are working
on. I have been working on a GSettings backend for Orca for a
week or so now, just about to start the actual coding, after
much planning and writing out the GSettings metadata. Longer
term, to properly support individual desktop environments
offering Orca settings in their system settings control
panels, it may be worth moving settings management, both in
the storage and retrieval of settings, as well as presenting
settings in the UI to a C library. The desktop environments
that work with Orca now are written in either C/GObject C, or
C++. Orca itself would make use of this C library, and with
some planning, we could develop an API that allows a the
settings for Orca to dynamically be presented and updated,
such that any new settings only need to be added to Orca, and
the UI in the desktop environments dynamically updates based
on what they retrieve via Orca’s settings API. This library
would then take care of s

toring th e settings, most likely in GSettings.


I suspect one reason why some people are against individual
desktop environments offering Orca settings in their control
center, is due to the possibility of Orca settings being out
of sync with what is offered in their control center. I’d
argue that it would not be too far fetched, and not too
difficult to implement things such that desktop environment
developers only need to implement Orca’s settings API once,
and then any new settings Orca offers are automatically
presented when they are added to Orca. Would that be enough
to convince you folks that using the control centre of your
desktop environment to change Orca settings is the way to
go?

Luke _______________________________________________ 
orca-list mailing list orca-list gnome org 
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list Orca wiki:
https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca Orca documentation:
https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/ GNOME Universal
Access guide:
https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html Log
bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org

_______________________________________________ orca-list
mailing list orca-list gnome org 
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list Orca wiki:
https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca Orca documentation:
https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/ GNOME Universal
Access guide:
https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html Log
bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org

_______________________________________________ orca-list mailing
list orca-list gnome org 
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list Orca wiki:
https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca Orca documentation:
https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/ GNOME Universal Access
guide: https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html 
Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org

_______________________________________________ orca-list mailing
list orca-list gnome org 
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list Orca wiki:
https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca Orca documentation:
https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/ GNOME Universal Access
guide: https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html Log
bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org

References:
- Re: [orca-list] GUI Redesign or clearup and modernization
  - From: B. Henry
- Re: [orca-list] GUI Redesign or clearup and modernization
  - From: Devin Prater

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