Re: [orca-list] some oddities in gnome's core application menus

From: kendell clark <coffeekingms gmail com>
To: Joanmarie Diggs <jdiggs igalia com>
Cc: Orca List <orca-list gnome org>
Subject: Re: [orca-list] some oddities in gnome's core application menus
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2015 19:22:20 -0500

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hi
I really need to get my facts straight before sending these kind of
emails, lol. The important thing is that orca announces what it's
supposed to, which it does. Whether it's a menu, tool bar, header bar,
whatever, so long as it's accessible, and it is.
Thanks
Kendell clark
Sent from sonar GNU/Linux


Joanmarie Diggs wrote:

Hi Kendell.

On 04/19/2015 03:08 AM, kendell clark wrote:

Example. Set focus to the desktop and press f10. A menu will show
up,


Actually a container that looks rather menu like but apparently
isn't a menu shows up. Things that tell me it's not an actual menu
include:

1. In menus, arrowing causes the selected item to become
highlighted with a different color. In the container which appears
when you press F10, this does not happen; instead, a focus
rectangle gets drawn, just like happens when you use Tab or the
arrows in dialog boxes.

2. In menus, at least Gtk+ menus, pressing Tab doesn't move you to
the next item. In the container which appears when you press F10,
pressing Tab does move you to the next item, just like happens when
you use Tab in dialog boxes.

3. In menus, if the "f" is underlined, you can activate that menu
item by pressing F; In the container which appears when you press
F10, this doesn't work. Instead, in order to activate the item with
the "f" underlined, you must press Alt+F, just like you must do
when you are in a dialog box.

All of the above are true even without Orca running. And all of
the above explain what you describe here:

and orca will announce,  "new folder push button." If I use the
where am I keyboard shortcut orca announces, new folder push
button. Alt+f.


Orca is accurately describing where you are and what the keyboard 
shortcuts are.

My questions are, is it possible to have orca announce these
menus as menus?


Should Orca pretend they are menus and menu items when they are
not? And even if Orca did so, that wouldn't change the navigation
or interaction (e.g. F doesn't work; Alt+F does).

And if your answer is still "yes", Orca should pretend they are
menus, and everyone else agrees, then I need to figure out exactly
where these things are getting created and what could be added to
them (i.e. in the application or Gtk+) so that Orca could reliably
identify them and distinguish them from other containers with
buttons. Right now, these things look like generic containers with
buttons.

I know I'm entering a menu,


From the above, I hope you now know that you are not entering a
menu. You are entering a container with buttons.

but new users might not.


And telling them they are in a menu might only serve to confuse
them further, because the shortcuts and navigation are different
between menus and the container that pops up when you press F10 in
the circumstances you describe.

Sometimes, pressing f10 moves you not to a menu, but a toolbar,
such as in gnome boxes,  but orca doesn't announce this.


When I press F10 in boxes, focus moves to the New button, which
Orca announces for me. But that button is not in a toolbar. It's in
the header bar, which seems to not have an accessible role other
than panel. I'll look into this more later -- my guess is the
change will need to be made in Gtk+, but I don't yet know that.
Regardless, Orca is not moving to a toolbar (at least in what I
tried). So I don't think Orca should announce that you are moving
into a toolbar. If you have a different example in which Orca is
moving into a toolbar, I'll take a look.

Second, this may not be an orca issue, but is it possible to 
restore the announcement of keyboard shortcuts, if the option is 
enabled in orca's preferences?


Could you please give me specific steps to reproduce the problem?

--joanie

References:
- [orca-list] some oddities in gnome's core application menus
  - From: kendell clark
- Re: [orca-list] some oddities in gnome's core application menus
  - From: Joanmarie Diggs

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