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Re: [orca-list] Qt 5 accessibility

Hello,
I have already started writing some of the issues in my drafts however running qt apps with -style=fusion made such a difference that I should at least post a quick update on how I currently see it. When the GTK style is used I have issues navigating to child windows for example with transmission-qt I can't focus the settings window. Another issue with GTK style is that there is no obvious way on how to bring up the menu bar. The alt key alone can't be used to popup the menubar, F10 or shift+F10 do nothing in this case as well and the menu can't be reached via the gnome top pannel like it's working with GTK3 apps. So the only workaround which has left is using mnemonics to pull specific menus e.g. pressing alt+f for going directly to the file menu. This works even while GTK style is loaded. 
Other issues remain regardless of the style being used.
Previously I have said I do have issues with sliders. I must have mixed the role names because now after checking again I noticed sliders are working fine but I am having problems getting corect value reporting for spin boxes. Usually these contain a numeric value which can also be edited directly. Pressing left and right arrow keys to read current value letter by letter is working like it should however when pressing up and down arow to increment or decrement the value the first change is reported correctly and subsequent changes are not. Either the label associated with the control is reported on each value change or the focus is moved to a different control as I am testing this with transmission-qt. Comboboxes appear to be fixed for the next update according to the bug report you have mentioned. 
Edit fields can't be confortably navigated no mather which style is loaded.
I'll now finally look into the bugtracker and I'll try to submit these as individual issues.
Is there a way to force a specific style system wide? For me and maybe others this would be a nice tweak since we don't normally care on appearance and prefer easy access to the menubar instead. 

Greetings

Peter


 On 03.06.2014 16:21, Frederik Gladhorn wrote:

Hi Peter and all,

On Monday, June 02, 2014 05:00:00 PM Peter Vágner wrote:

Hello,
I am sorry my attempt at some kind of report was not something you would
consider as a polite request. Anyway is there a way for you or someone
else close enough on the team to at least do some verry basic testing
with the real screen reader orca on linux in this specific case please?

I do this regularly and one issue just came up which was completely unexpected
to me. I run KDE usually and thus get one of the Qt default styles. But of
course most Orca users use Gnome and Qt tries to adapt and be visually
pleasing and thus loads the GTK style which integrates nicely but fares much
worse when it comes to a11y. I haven't thought about this being an issue
before and I guess we were experiencing completely different behavior.

As a quick test, can you run the application on the command line with "-
style=fusion" as parameter? For me that makes a huge difference, as in Orca
barely working and working nicely.

I'm currently on the road, so I'll not get around to looking at this properly
for the next few days.
https://bugreports.qt-project.org/browse/QTBUG-39419


Also would you like me to write reports in a way so you will get steps
to reproduce, current behaviour and expected behaviour? This is
something I believe I can do and if it may eventually help to make QT
accessibility become even better in the future, then I am happy to do that.

That would be really great. Usually the issues are pretty obvious (even though
you'll have to bear with me, I'm still learning all the time), so a short
description of what doesn't work and how it should be is indeed the right
thing. Please be sure to use GUI: Accessibility as Component, then it ends up
being assigned directly to me and I'll deal with it.


I haven't tested QT5 on windows so I can't comment on this right now but
I can remember having issues for example with tabcontrols on all the
platforms in the past so I've assumed most of these critical issues
target multiplatforms where possible.

We radically reworked many parts and moved away from some of the old MSAA
APIs, of course it depends on the screen reader used, but I usually check at
least with NVDA and it seems to me that Tabs work. Please let me know if they
don't. As said, I usually check that screen readers read the items (such as
each tab name) and that it works with keyboard. I may very well get details
wrong and sometimes Qt behaves slightly different from GTK.

Greetings,
Frederik


Thanks and greetings

Peter

On 02.06.2014 13:57, Frederik Gladhorn wrote:

Hi,

Peter, thanks for your feedback. In the last three months we closed 44
accessibility issues in Qt, of course not all of them will end up in a
release right away. Also I personally worked on a lot of Mac and Windows
issues since I got high quality bug reports on these platforms.

This is the first time I get any feedback when it comes to accessibility
on
Linux with Qt 5.3, so I am not surprised that there are issues. Please let
me know when you run into problems.

On Friday, May 30, 2014 12:00:26 PM Peter Vágner wrote:

Hello,
I have briefly tested transmission-qt with QT 5.3 on arch linux today.
I am not happy to report that:
- comboboxes

I wonder if the problem you are seeing is this bug:
https://bugreports.qt-project.org/browse/QTBUG-36814
(fixed in 5.3.1)


, sliders appear to be still broken ei.e. not correctly
firing value change events.

Can you please give more details? I just tested a simple Qt example that
ships with Qt (widgets/sliders) and for me sliders work (Orca announces
the new value after pressing the arrow keys.
Funny enough sliders and dial don't do that.
https://bugreports.qt-project.org/browse/QTBUG-39394


I am having issues navigating in edit fields (note this appears to be
working better with QT4).

Please give more details. Ideally a bug report at
https://bugreports.qt-project.org (the account creation currently has a
visual only captcha, sorry for that. Upgrading the bug tracker is
scheduled but non-trivial, but you can send a mail to
jira-admin qt-project org and will get an account).


Perhaps there are under the hoodstability and other fixes but I am
afraid real accessibility testing by the potential users is either not
taken into considerations while working on this or it's being put aside
for the consideration to the future updates.

We test as much as we can, but not depending on a screen reader it's
sometimes hard to tell what is working and what isn't. So please give
feedback, otherwise I cannot spend time on this.

Greetings,
Frederik


Other things which I can't say are QT5 issues or might be app specific
issues is that flat review does not work and some of the controls don't
convey its role and state.
I have studied no implementation details I have observed all this by
running orca and my guess work as I can't see at all.

I am looking forward to some real exciting developments on this front.

Greetings

Peter

On 20.05.2014 15:35, Frederik Gladhorn wrote:

Hello,

since Qt accessibility comes up as a topic every once in a while, I
thought
I'd give a short update.

Qt 5 is looking better and better when it comes to accessibility. Today
Qt
5.3.0 was released and the release contains quite some improvements
across
the board and on all platforms. I recently wrote a blog post about it:
http://blog.qt.digia.com/blog/2014/05/14/accessibility-in-qt-5-3/

Since KDE is slowly moving towards a release based on Qt 5, I hope that
we'll be able to provide a decent experience for everyone from the
release of Plasma Next and onwards. By the way, the old environment
variable to enable accessibility has been retired and Qt now ships and
builds all accessibility code by default, not depending on external
plugins any more.

I'd also like to mention that we now have a dedicated mailing list to
discuss Qt accessibility issues:
http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/accessibility

Another nice project that just started is a cooperation to improve
accessibility for Qt apps on mobile devices (targeting Android and iOS).

Let me quote Trenton:

My name is Trenton Schulz. I’m a senior research scientist at the
Norwegian
Computing Center (Norsk Regnesentral), and I’m working with Digia on
our
BestApps project [1] for increasing the accessibility of mobile apps.

Currently, we are doing some user investigation about how different
people
use assistive technology (AT) with their smartphones and apps. In
connection with this, I would be interested in finding people that
would
be
interested in participating in a small interview (either over
telephone,
Skype, or email) about how they use this technology. We are holding a
workshop connected to this as well on 19 June in Oslo.

So, if you are interested (or know anyone), please let me know via
email
and I can send more details. Your input can help make future Qt
applications more accessible and easier to use for everyone.

I'm looking forward to feedback from the Orca users as more Qt 5
applications become available on Linux.

Greetings,
Frederik

PS: Qt 4 is in maintenance mode and there will be no real changes in
accessibility for it.

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