GNOME.org
 

Re: [orca-list] Geany, SciTE and other Scintilla based applications

Alex,

I can recommend wxWidgets and wx.Python as excellent toolkits for the
visually impaired to produce good-looking GUI applications.

Key to their success is the grid-sizer method of laying out components. 
This method negates the need for specifying sizes and positions in
absolute numbers which has implications when font-sizes change or
windows are resized or moved.

I have written a number of GUI apps on Windows using wxWidgets.  But
that's made easier by an NVDA plug-in I have written which will display
the absolute and relative position of all the objects in a window hierarchy.

There is probably a way of doing that on gtk as well.

I've never found Eclipse very easy to use, not from an accessibility
point of view but because I seem always to spend 90% of development time
wrestling with Eclipse and only the remaining 10% actually writing code.

But that's probably just me :)

Mike

On 15/07/2014 18:43, Alex Midence wrote:

I don't do much coding these days, but, the little I do is done well enough using Eclipse.  Anyone looking 
for a nice, fully-featured IDE for just about any language will find it anywhere from quite serviceable to 
most excellent.  Best of all, it is and has been accessible on Linux, Mac and Windows for a number of years 
now.  Personally, I'd like to see something like Glade or Anjuta receive developer TLC as it has a gtk+ rad 
component with widgets that are accessible.  It should be possible to fix it so that it's possible to 
create a basic GUI without vision and do so fairly quickly which is what a RAD tool is for.  


Just my two cents,
Alex M

-----Original Message-----
From: orca-list [mailto:orca-list-bounces gnome org] On Behalf Of Mike Ray
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2014 11:54 AM
To: orca-list gnome org
Subject: Re: [orca-list] Geany, SciTE and other Scintilla based applications


I think Neil is perfectly aware of what accessibility is and the fact that there are plenty of people who 
would like to see it done.

Even to have written a control like Scintilla is a huge achievement and he is to be congratulated for it 
and making it open source.

But like the rest of us, he can make his own decisions about the code he wrote.


On 15/07/2014 17:40, B. Henry wrote:

For sure anyone has the right to be tired, have a different set of priorities than we do or just plain be 
uninterested. 
It's also possible that the guy just doesn't know what's required to 
add accessibility code and doesn't have the time for, or can't be 
bothered with this right now.
Anyone who approaches him in what ever way should certainly understand this and be respectful. 
That all being said there's a good chance that the authorin question 
isn't aware of the interest that screenreader dependent users have in 
his software. Hearing that there are many people who are interested may influence his priorities, assuming 
he has any for this, i.e. he is  actively working on it these days.
Don't be pushy, demanding, overly aggressive, but asking and or making 
a brief case for this work may make a difference, if not this week, maybe next year.
As stated, if you really want something done, well do it or find 
someone who you can get to do it for you. Unless you have money to pay to get it done this of course means 
finding someone who cares and has the skills to fix things.
I've barely heard of the programs in question,so have no dog in this fight as it were. 
What applications are accessible that come closest to doing what this software does?
Thanks,
--
B.H.

  

On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 04:20:37PM +0100, Mike Ray wrote:

I wouldn't refer to trying to pressure Neil Hodgson into adding 
accessibility to Scintilla as 'peer pressure'.  He wrote it, he 
unfortunately has every right to refuse to spend time adding accessibility.

Happily as it's open source there's no reason why somebody else 
should not do the necessary work.


I get as frustrated as anybody with inaccessible apps but we don't 
have a right to bulldozer authors into doing stuff they don't want to do.



On 15/07/2014 15:01, John Heim wrote:

Sounds like time for some peer pressure.  I'll have a go at it soon 
as I have some time. That probably won't be until at least next week.



On 07/15/14 01:49, Mike Ray wrote:

He just said no.

And then made some comments about Microsoft changing their 
accessibility interface which made introduction of a11y in the 
Windows version difficult.

And something about any changes needing to be backwards-compatible 
to earlier gtk versions.

However he did express a willingness to incorporate any a11y 
changes a competent developer might add.

I think everything except the actual edit control, being standard 
gtk widgets basically work.  Although Scintilla code-completion and 
call-tips are likely to be more of a problem, as they are on Windows.

I will have a look at atk and how to interface to at-spi but I know 
very little about gtk or atk at the moment.

Mike


On 15/07/2014 07:23, Tony Baechler wrote:

Did he give a reason why?  I'm not a programmer, but could a patch 
be written easily or would that require a lot of extra code?  I'm 
thinking that Debian for example often ships source patches to fix 
bugs and add features.
  Obviously, if it's a lot of work, it's not worth it, but if the 
major distros could ship a patched version with accessibility, 
that could be a possible solution.

On 2014-07-14 04:21 PM, Mike Ray wrote:

Hello.

Today I asked Neil Hodgson, the author of the Scintilla control 
which is used by Geany, SciTE and a number of other gtk tools, if 
he would consider adding accessibility code to the gtk version of 
Scintilla.

He said no.

Mike


--
Michael A. Ray
Analyst/Programmer
Witley, Surrey, South-east UK

The box said: 'install Windows XP, 7 or better'. So I installed Linux

Interested in accessibility on the Raspberry Pi?
Visit: http://www.raspberryvi.org/

From where you can join our mailing list for visually-impaired Pi 
hackers

_______________________________________________
orca-list mailing list
orca-list gnome org
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on Orca.
The manual is at 
http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html
The FAQ is at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions
Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org Find out 
how to help at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp


--
Michael A. Ray
Analyst/Programmer
Witley, Surrey, South-east UK

The box said: 'install Windows XP, 7 or better'. So I installed Linux

Interested in accessibility on the Raspberry Pi?
Visit: http://www.raspberryvi.org/

From where you can join our mailing list for visually-impaired Pi hackers

_______________________________________________
orca-list mailing list
orca-list gnome org
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on Orca.
The manual is at http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html
The FAQ is at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions
Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org Find out how to help at 
http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp




-- 
Michael A. Ray
Analyst/Programmer
Witley, Surrey, South-east UK

The box said: 'install Windows XP, 7 or better'. So I installed Linux

Interested in accessibility on the Raspberry Pi?
Visit: http://www.raspberryvi.org/


From where you can join our mailing list for visually-impaired Pi hackers
[Date Prev][Date Next]   [Thread Prev][Thread Next]   [Thread Index] [Date Index] [Author Index]